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My R

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501 Re: My R on 4th March 2018, 8:07 am

gtir_woody

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Yeah im really not excited about the cost mate, but just gotta do it and hope this is the final engine build Ill need for a very long time.

502 Re: My R on 4th March 2018, 8:40 am

gtir_woody

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@splmum wrote:Did he also do the bottom end, if so drop the sump and check he put in the correct pistons and that you still have your oil squiters in place.

Are the pistons themselves GTIR specific mate?

503 Re: My R on 4th March 2018, 8:44 am

splmum

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@gtir_woody wrote:
@splmum wrote:Did he also do the bottom end, if so drop the sump and check he put in the correct pistons and that you still have your oil squiters in place.

Are the pistons themselves GTIR specific mate?

Yes, but only to the fact they have a slot cut out of the bottom of the piston to clear the oil squirters. I think some of the other SR20's also had the slot, ie S13 ??. S14 and S15.

504 Re: My R on 4th March 2018, 10:57 am

ducie54

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Also make sure sure the rod bearings are correct for the rods. Some are 17mm and others 19mm

505 Re: My R on 5th March 2018, 9:53 am

gtir_woody

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Thanks guys, I did read that about the pistons somewhere but hopefully they are okk.

506 Re: My R on 5th March 2018, 12:33 pm

GTI-R US

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Just read your update Chris and Not good at all.........Hopefully this other guy knows what he's doing regarding getting it right this time round.
regarding valve springs..........Thats why i tell people not to use the upgraded titanium ones which many seem to stock, they are primerally for the sr20de head with hydraulic lifters and Not the rnn14 solid lifter head. They cause massive issues with pre-load and noisy top ends, also if the wrong cams are used then theres a greater risk of flying rockers off the pivot points.

With the Arp head studs the main reason for not using these was the fact that they do not seat correctly at base, we have seen many heads that have lifted where these have been used.
However i have come up with a cunning plan to stop this happening and keeping the studs firmly in place so baring that in mind im going to use them in my 900bhp stroker build on the Rasheen.
Fair comments what the others made regarding them and engines not being built correctly......if that was/is the case then it would be just cause for them to fail!


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507 Re: My R on 7th March 2018, 10:10 am

gtir_woody

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@GTI-R US wrote:Just read your update Chris and Not good at all.........Hopefully this other guy knows what he's doing regarding getting it right this time round.
regarding valve springs..........Thats why i tell people not to use the upgraded titanium ones which many seem to stock, they are primerally for the sr20de head with hydraulic lifters and Not the rnn14 solid lifter head. They cause massive issues with pre-load and noisy top ends, also if the wrong cams are used then theres a greater risk of flying rockers off the pivot points.

With the Arp head studs the main reason for not using these was the fact that they do not seat correctly at base, we have seen many heads that have lifted where these have been used.
However i have come up with a cunning plan to stop this happening and keeping the studs firmly in place so baring that in mind im going to use them in my 900bhp stroker build on the Rasheen.
Fair comments what the others made regarding them and engines not being built correctly......if that was/is the case then it would be just cause for them to fail!

That's right mate, if aftermarket springs are used they must be GTIR specific, although I did read somewhere it might be possible to machine the bottom of the spring seats in the head to accommodate the 2mm difference of the 53j springs.

508 Re: My R on 7th March 2018, 12:15 pm

Mr B

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Yeh the head can be machined if needed for differing spring height, choosing specific solid lifter 54C cams is best way have minimal valve train issue.
If below 650hp I see no issue using oem head bolts, cheap, easy install and proven reliable .

509 Re: My R on 7th March 2018, 12:48 pm

GTI-R US

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Its not really about bhp you run, its more about the boost pressure thats what causes heads to lift and so forth.
If your running in excess of 1.8bar upwards 2.5 in some cases, then obviously there is a lot more pressure on the gasket, head & block faces, and also fasteners used. But that can be achieved using large or smaller tubby giving vastly different bhp results.


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GTI-R-US.co.uk
 In association with
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Nissan Performance & Tuning Centre
Services provided

Forge Engine rebuilds to specification
Body Restoration, Fabrication, Repair
Paint refinishing facilities
Ecu re-mapping-Performance upgrades
Auto Diagnostics, Injector cleaning  
Race & Suspension setup
General Servicing, Mots, tyre fitting
Full workshop facilities
http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

510 Re: My R on 7th March 2018, 4:47 pm

Mr B

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Boost is nothing compared to combustion pressures or det, obviously more boost = more air and thus more fuel and thus more combustion pressure and more hp, compression ratio will play big role on in cylinder pressures. I no idea on actual cylinder pressure point standard bolts start give allowing head lift but I seen 600 to 700hp in malaysia standard bolts never an issue .

511 Re: My R on 15th March 2018, 10:28 am

gtir_woody

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All parts collected for rebuild. Mostly head related but I’m crossing my fingers the bottom end is ok ????. Hopefully next week drop the engine off to the builder. I’ll have a really solid engine when all complete this time around. In way I’m glad it’s happened because it gives me the opportunity to change things and make the build better ????

Camtech 270 cams
Bc dual valve springs with titanium retainers
Supertech Intake Valves 35.15 (+1)
Supertech exhaust valves 31.15 (+1)
Supertech valve stem seals
Supertech inlet and exhaust guides
Cometic head gasket
Oem nissan cam cover bolts
Arp head studs
Arp clutch cover bolts
Jim wolf fixed adjustable cam gears
Oem main seals
13psi tial wastegate spring
set of good condition rockers thanks to bob

512 Re: My R on 15th March 2018, 10:31 am

mike74

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How are Cometic head gaskets nowadays? I seem to remember them being a bit temperamental a few years ago?

Sounds like a nice spec you've got there Woody, should be quick once built Smile

513 Re: My R on 15th March 2018, 10:54 am

gtir_woody

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@mike74 wrote:How are Cometic head gaskets nowadays? I seem to remember them being a bit temperamental a few years ago?

Sounds like a nice spec you've got there Woody, should be quick once built  Smile

I heard that at one point aswell mate, I’m not sure but seen a lot of r’s running them now, just need to make sure the head/ block surfaces are good and within spec, Imo I’m feeling pretty comfortable with using them.

514 Re: My R on 15th March 2018, 11:44 am

Mr B

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gtir technician
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Yeh huge amount of sr20's in states on cometic without much issue.
They revised the gasket stopper layer few years back I believe .

Good luck and fingers crossed bottom end no surprises ...

515 Re: My R on 16th March 2018, 10:01 am

gtir_woody

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Thanks mate, fingers crossed Smile

516 Re: My R on 19th April 2018, 8:43 am

gtir_woody

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Just noticed all my postimage.org pictures are no longer working! hope its just the server!

517 Re: My R on 19th April 2018, 11:58 am

Ryaneg6freak

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@GTI-R US wrote:Just read your update Chris and Not good at all.........Hopefully this other guy knows what he's doing regarding getting it right this time round.
regarding valve springs..........Thats why i tell people not to use the upgraded titanium ones which many seem to stock, they are primerally for the sr20de head with hydraulic lifters and Not the rnn14 solid lifter head. They cause massive issues with pre-load and noisy top ends, also if the wrong cams are used then theres a greater risk of flying rockers off the pivot points.

With the Arp head studs the main reason for not using these was the fact that they do not seat correctly at base, we have seen many heads that have lifted where these have been used.
However i have come up with a cunning plan to stop this happening and keeping the studs firmly in place so baring that in mind im going to use them in my 900bhp stroker build on the Rasheen.
Fair comments what the others made regarding them and engines not being built correctly......if that was/is the case then it would be just cause for them to fail!

One of the biggest reasons people were having trouble, as you said Bob, was incorrect engine assembly.  I don't think alot of people realize just how flat and clean and proper surface friction coefficient type that the head AND the block need to be for proper sealing with a MLS gasket.  The old fiber gaskets were much more forgiving of surface imperfections.

That coupled with the design ARP originally spec'ed for the head studs and it led to a lot of blown head gaskets.  The biggest problem with the ARP studs was that they weren't threaded all the way to the bottom, therefore they didn't seat all the way in the bottom of the block, and it was pulling threads out.

They've since rectified that issue, however, the ARP studs still don't have as much thread engagement as the the stock bolts do. I verified this by putting prussian blue in one of the bolt holes, and putting the head on.  I then threaded in an ARP stud, and a factory head bolt.  You can see by where the bluing was that the factory bolts have approx 20% more thread engagement, but contrary to popular belief, the factory head bolts DO NOT engage all the threads that are on the bolt when installed, in fact about the top 15mm of the threads simply does nothing at all, why Nissan chose to thread them up that far is anyone's guess.  ARP also updated the assembly instructions for their studs, they used to tell you that the torque was only 85 ft.lbs, now they revised it to 100ft.lbs.  I also personally believe that the studs need to be retorqued after a couple heat cycles.

On the flip side, I have no idea why ARP, if given the option to design a stud that used 100% of the available threads in the block, why they chose not to do so.  I've sent them a few emails and the response I got was that a fastener only needs to have 2.5 times the threads, as the fastener is thick, which is exactly how they designed it.  I've actually sent them so many emails concerning the issue that they're starting to get a bit annoyed with me.  They did concede however, that the studs were not designed to be used in an extremely high horsepower engine, and that if I decided I wanted to do that, the suggested a custom set with more threads, and also made out of their ARP 625+ material and not the ARP2000 that they're currently made of. (the 625+ is much stronger)

They WILL design a custom fastener if you wish.  However....

If I was going to do this the right way, I'd start with a Bluebird or SR20VET block (as those have m11 head bolts), and machine the block for Mazworx 1/2" head studs.  You can't machine a 54C block for 1/2" studs because they use m12 bolts and don't have enough material to machine new threads.

Mazworx has them on the shelf and they already exist.

Now, if you're just building a mild engine that won't see more than 1 bar, you'll never have a problem with ARP studs.  I've been using them for years.

EDIT: Apparently I like to repeat myself lol

518 Re: My R on 20th April 2018, 8:45 am

Stu

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@Ryaneg6freak wrote:

EDIT: Apparently I like to repeat myself lol

What did you say?
Laughing


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519 Re: My R on 20th April 2018, 11:51 am

Ryaneg6freak

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@Stu wrote:
@Ryaneg6freak wrote:

EDIT: Apparently I like to repeat myself lol

What did you say?
Laughing

So long between replies, I didn't realize I'd said nearly the same thing on a few pages back hahaha

520 Re: My R on 20th April 2018, 8:49 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
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Would of been good if arp used better grade material on studs they did make as current ones not enough of an upgrade over oem bolts for the cost .

521 Re: My R on 21st April 2018, 7:21 am

Ryaneg6freak

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@Mr B wrote:Would of been good if arp used better grade material on studs they did make as current ones not enough of an upgrade over oem bolts for the cost .

I agree, and they will do this. ARP will make any fastener to any spec that you so desire.

I'm having them design a head stud from 625+ material that is M12, and has the shank threaded 10mm further on BOTH ends, as when you do a VE head swap, the machined holes are a tad deeper than the 54C head, and you run out of threads when you go to tighten the head nuts, so in the past, people have had to double stack head bolt washers on the studs to get the correct torque.(You also run into the same issue if you use stock head bolts, they'll bottom out in the block before reaching proper torque on the head)  I'm going to alleviate this issue.

Stock head bolts can still be found rather easily as well.  I just ordered a whole set of 10 from jp-carparts.com for $30 (they charged me $30 shipping too, but still a total of $60), not terribly expensive.

And they were OEM Nissan, not Blueprint or any other such thing.

522 Re: My R on 29th April 2018, 6:47 am

gtir_woody

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Little update on my motor since it’s been stripped down by the builder. The bottom end has thrown a main bearing which is bad news. This could have possibly contributed to the problems with the head however will know more with further investigation.

The crank and pistons are currently being crack tested to make sure they are all good. Bad news on the rods, one has significant heat marks so they will need to be replaced.

With the significant amount of metal in the motor, the oil pump may need replacing also. Now I’m not sure, but I’m guessing metal could have made its way into the turbo? I'm thinking it will be a good idea to strip that down also. I wasn't using my oil cooler so at least I wont need to throw it away.

523 Re: My R on 29th April 2018, 7:00 am

Ryaneg6freak

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Wow, you had main bearing spin? That's nearly unheard of with SR20's. That's crazy.

524 Re: My R on 29th April 2018, 7:03 am

gtir_woody

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Yup! Like to know how it happened on such a low km engine, either way just need to move forwards.

525 Re: My R on 29th April 2018, 11:54 am

Mr B

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Main bearing spinning pretty much always clearance set wrong/tight spot in rotation when rebuilt or oil supply issue.
If spun bad I junk the blocks . You can do some machine work and line boring make them usable but 54C was cheaper/easier/less risk pick up virgin/almost virgin used jdm salvage engine, good salvage harder find these days .
Everything going need a good inspection and clean up . Least you committed , just bit more hassle getting to the start line .

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