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Gtir Motorsport club » Gallery » Projects » new track car

new track car

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1 new track car on 9th May 2012, 12:56 pm

GTI-R US

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Management
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as some are aware im ditching the red and white track car which was initially built to race (but due to work commitments il never have the time) which is a shame!
so
ive moved the engine from the trackcar and fitted it into a good stock shell, also fitted the special gearbox we had built by dan and the lightweight front seats from my track car as well as the attain swirlpot and big brake kits front and rear.
i will be purchasing a new set of bc coilovers then get the car set up for fast road use.

im not gonna bother with a cage or harnesses as i want it to be as light as possible and something i can use on the road as well as trackdays etc so im kind of sacrificing the safety side of things for weight saving.

hopefully the car will be completed this week so will get some pics up then
il be putting the msa rolling shell on pistonheads as it will make a great rally car for someone.

http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

2 Re: new track car on 9th May 2012, 1:51 pm

Stu

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Cool

Be good to see some pics!

What colour shell have you used Bob? Black? Laughing

is it going to be totaly stripped out?

http://www.j10-meets.co.uk

3 Re: new track car on 9th May 2012, 2:30 pm

the vamp

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[quote="pulsar_stu"] Cool

Be good to see some pics!

What colour shell have you used Bob? Black? Laughing

I think he should get the shell painted a nice bright colour hmmm something like Orange would be good Smile

4 Re: new track car on 11th May 2012, 9:24 am

hotsnot

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sorry bob but i think you should put in the cage saftey first Very Happy

5 Re: new track car on 11th May 2012, 10:29 am

Stu

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[quote="cb82"]
pulsar_stu wrote: Cool

Be good to see some pics!

What colour shell have you used Bob? Black? Laughing

I think he should get the shell painted a nice bright colour hmmm something like Orange would be good Smile

sunburnt orange? Laughing

http://www.j10-meets.co.uk

6 Re: new track car on 11th May 2012, 10:41 am

nomad

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Something tells me your not going to live this down for a while Razz

7 Re: new track car on 11th May 2012, 1:18 pm

GTI-R US

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Management
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i dont care im a bigboy even if i have been tango'd lol

cars black stu, just looks like an everyday pulsar from the outside, but put it this way it turns heads when driving down the street as the gearbox sounds like a jet with its whine plus the whine under the bonnet from the 2 fuel pumps and turbo.

and yes pat....i seem to have overlooked safety but ive got one foot in the box already so im just hurrying things along a little more

http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

8 Re: new track car on 11th May 2012, 5:06 pm

pulsarmoley

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You leaving plain or having advertising on it Bob?

9 Re: new track car on 11th May 2012, 8:30 pm

nomad

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What tubby are you running on it bob ?

10 Re: new track car on 19th September 2012, 12:13 pm

GTI-R US

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well im now gonna tell you my plans Very Happy

she wont be running a tubby come the winter when im pulling it off the road.

im going for a modified tubular manifold (already bought) then il be fitting a rotrex supercharger on it together with the water to water charge cooler we have and doing away with the fmic setup.
injectors will need upgrading to something larger as there only 660cc so il be looking for some 800s

the car will then run a silenced 3'' system right through to aidd the flow.
il be looking to run her at around 450-460hp but the power delivery should be astonishingly quick and smooth with none of the lag associated with turbos at that kind of power.
this should make the car amazingly fast on track with instant smooth grunt from the apexes Cool

imho i think a charger is the way to go for big power as its much more of a linear loading on the crank so every moving part is under progressive increases in power instead of a heavy sudden loading associated with a turbo. its also much easier to increase or decrease power by simply altering the drive pulley to something larger or smaller (none of this buying and fitting bigger / smaller turbos like ive done so many times in the past
this should hugely improve reliability of the engine and transmission system aswell, due to above.

i only know of one other thats tried to go this route and he tried it with a charger and turbo coupled with other weird and wonderfull things including twin injectors which i think over complicated things.
the car was never finished as he couldnt get the mapping right so ended up being ripped apart.
with a bit of fabricating im sure i can make this work and ive already spoken to ed regarding best route to map the car and he doesnt foresee any major probs

so watch this space as itll definately be going ahead over the winter Very Happy

http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

11 Re: new track car on 19th September 2012, 9:07 pm

johnboy

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Can't think of a better way to keep busy over the winter. alien
Look forward to hearing the progress, and the problems as it goes along.

Good luck

12 Re: new track car on 19th September 2012, 9:48 pm

nomad

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What size supercharger. .. Will it be located where the ac pump was. ....

13 Re: new track car on 20th September 2012, 8:32 am

Kate&tim

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How about a aerocharger ? It's a variable vane turbo that needs no oil or water feeds.

http://www.aerocharger.com/

14 Re: new track car on 20th September 2012, 10:37 am

GTI-R US

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yes il look into that kate thanks but think ive made my mind up with what i know of to work.
the rotrex charger has its own independant oil supply so no feeding needed from anywhere else which kind of simplifies things

think i will be going with the c38-71 series which can see well over 600bhp but need to do a bit more research on pressure maps etc before i go ahead and buy one as bigger isnt always better lol, but as said pulleys can be changed to suit your own needs.
will be fabricated to fit where the ac pump was but will be a bit on the tight side under there due to the charge cooler setup also.
although the intake temps should be way down on a turbo i want them as best as i can possibly get and think the water to water cooler is best way to go on this (especially as i have the complete kit in stock)

it will be an interesting project and i really do think there will be massive improvements over a turbo otherwise i wouldnt waste my time and money bothering.
will need to do a fair bit of fabricating as theres not a kit on the market ready to bolt on to the R but im really looking forward to see what the finished item will produce on the rollers......with a stock gearbox fitted!



Last edited by gtirus on 20th September 2012, 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

15 Re: new track car on 20th September 2012, 12:06 pm

GTI-R US

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heres some info on why im going this route (makes for some interesting reading if your bored lol)


ROTREX superchargers are not positive displacement but work on the principle of a turbine, the same way that turbochargers operate. In order for this principle to work the turbine has to spin at very high speed. In turbochargers the hot exhaust gases spin the turbine up to speeds of up to 150,000RPM. ROTREX superchargers spin up to 250,000 rpm depending on model. To get these high speeds in the supercharger the input drive shaft operates through a special planetary gearbox to speed up the turbine, the result being high-pressure air out of a compact unit the size of an alternator.

The gearbox is a fixed ratio traction roller transmission, which has a built in capability to adjust contact forces applied to the traction surfaces of the transmission in relation to the force required. Traction roller transmissions require relatively large engagement forces between their traction surfaces to prevent slippage.

The ROTREX unit automatically adjusts the contact force, to optimise the gear for those applications where the transmission transmits less torque, the amount of frictional losses and wear is reduced. Where full torque is transmitted, the transmission has the capability to provide sufficient traction force to prevent slippage.

The ROTREX charger being of this turbine type overcomes the drawbacks of previous superchargers, these problems being the main reason car manufacturers started to develop turbo chargers some 20 years ago and only now are manufacturers coming back to look at superchargers.

The benefits of the ROTREX charger over other superchargers are firstly being centrifugal they take little power to drive and so save BHP that would otherwise be lost in driving the unit. Another benefit to using the ROTREX, as opposed to any displacement charger is the fact all displacement chargers produce maximum boost at about 3000 engine rpm and then tail off as you rev higher. This is a big problem when driving, as you do not want near max power at low rpm as you get tremendous traction problems, which is a particular problem if you compete in drag races and standing quarter miles, as all you do is spin the wheels and go nowhere. The ROTREX, being a centrifugal type charger has a nice even increase in boost pressure rising in a linear pattern, with useable extra power from 1000 engine rpm and max boost at say 11000 rpm (or at what ever you desire, depending on the engine).

The latest revision of ROTREX unit is integrated with it's own oil pump and supply of special traction fluid. This gives extremely good reliability.

The ROTREX supercharger conversion offers huge advantages over a turbocharger:

Total drivability: - what you do with the throttle is transmitted directly to the rear wheel.

No throttle lag: - instant throttle response.

No huge surge in power: - power is progressive, increasing right to the redline.

Reduced peak cylinder pressures: - as torque is spread over a large range of rpm with no sudden increase, peak torque is lower but more useable.

Reduced strain on engine components: - with the increased useable rev range and progressive torque increase engine components are not subject to massive changes in cylinder pressure associated with turbo installations.

Efficiency is higher: - as there is no heat build up within the supercharger the input air temperature is significantly reduced over a turbocharger, reducing detonation and increasing power output and efficiency. A typical turbocharger has an efficiency of 65% a ROTREX is 72%.

Exhaust temperatures reduced: - unlike turbo's there is no excessive back pressure and heat build up within the engine and engine bay. This keeps engine components within their design perimeters and reduces fatigue in components like exhaust valves, seats and springs and reduces water and oil temperature.

Safety: - In race applications, engine components are pushed to and beyond their limits. In the event of an engine disintegrating the destroyed components ejected out of the exhaust do not go through the supercharger. On a turbocharger the exhaust impeller would be destroyed requiring a total turbo rebuild.

Reduced replacement time: - If the supercharger was to break (highly unlikely) then a new one could be fitted in less than 10 minutes.

The ROTREX supercharger conversion offers huge advantages over normally aspirated:

More horsepower: - normally aspirated engines will never make as much power as a well developed ROTREX supercharged engine.

Less cost: - the ROTREX supercharged engine will cost less per BHP than NA engines.

Less fussy: - the ROTREX supercharged engine drives much more smoothly with no defined power band unlike a highly tuned NA engine.

Easier starting: - with the same or less compression than an NA engine there is no extra strain on the starter motor or starter gear train. Lower maintenance: - Without wild cams and stronger valve springs the valve gear gets an easier time and the cam chain and tensioners last longer.

Less fatigue: - as the boost damps the pistons inertia during the valve overlap period there is less stretch on connecting rods. As power is progressive there is no unnecessary stress on any engine component as the full rev range can be used.

The engine does not have to be made larger to produce the power, so there is no need to replace with pistons of larger diameter or the cost of reboring or replating. Combining the TTS/ROTREX supercharger conversion with normally aspirated tuning.

We have found that wilder camshafts can be used to an advantage with the supercharged engine.

Increasing the engines capacity can also produce extra gains in performance.

Anything to increase the strength of you engine is always worth while.

http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

16 Re: new track car on 20th September 2012, 12:59 pm

Welling_AL

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quality read - great info Bob
really hope this works out - it sounds like an exciting project
you can be sure most of us will want to nose under the bonnet once you have it up & running
a long way off yet - but im sure we'd like to see it on the rollers too !
keep up the updates

AL.

17 Re: new track car on 20th September 2012, 1:00 pm

the vamp

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yeah in theory this is all good bob but hurry up and get it sorted so we can all see if its worthwhile lol

18 Re: new track car on 20th September 2012, 1:06 pm

GTI-R US

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Management
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yep will keep you updated on it chaps as we go ahead
once ive got my head round how these compressor maps pan out il be buying everything i need to go ahead.

yes in theory its all good but we all know that theory does not always pan out to be fact lol

http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

19 Re: new track car on 20th September 2012, 8:37 pm

Guest


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Bob,

Rotrex turbos, produce linear power curves like a n/ a engine, I.e power climbs towards the redline and therefore are very turbo like in throttle response, you may be better looking at a screw type ( as used on minis and merc) or roots type positive displacement supercharger for instant throttle response.

Been looking at doing this to mine as it needs more low end power, there is a fella with an evo in Scotland who has perfected the super,turbo combo and the thing is a missile.

20 Re: new track car on 21st September 2012, 12:01 pm

GTI-R US

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yes cheers dan
il look into all of them including the link that kate sent before making a decision as i dont wanna splash out and get the wrong one which isnt suitable for my needs

what gave me the idea was a little pug at donnington running 400hp on a rotrex charger.
he came past me so fast off an apex after rapidly closing me down on a straight it made it look like i was going backwards Laughing
he annialated an aerial atom as well as everyrhing else on circuit before his gearbox blew up, i had a good ol chat with him and he showed me the setup he was running.
thats when i thought......this has to be the way to go, never seen a car accelerate past me so fast with my boot nailed to the floor Shocked it really was kind of dis-heartening the difference in speed was that great

cant be having that happen again Laughing

http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

21 Re: new track car on 16th October 2012, 3:20 pm

GTI-R US

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well ive got one more possible trackday at brands at end of this month then im pulling the car off the road for the winter to hopefully get the charger conversion under way.

think i know what direction im taking now with it so will need to pull the lump out order the kit in and start fabricating some fixing brackets up.

quite looking forward to doing this as its all unchartered territory with a gtir.
think il give the engine a refresh too as its had some serious abuse this year, but really its all been problem free which is a first lol

http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

22 Re: new track car on 16th October 2012, 3:32 pm

nomad

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What date do you think your be at brands bob Cool

23 Re: new track car on 16th October 2012, 4:56 pm

GTI-R US

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possibly on the 30th leighton but itll be booked a couple days prior, whys that you wanna pop down for a passenger ride before i pull car to pieces lol

http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

24 Re: new track car on 16th October 2012, 6:54 pm

nomad

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Lol i dont know about that might have to double me dose of tablets the night before if i jump in Razz might pop down work depending of course neex all the money i can get atm seeing as my runaround is on its way out but if i get a chance il pop down Cool

25 Re: new track car on 16th October 2012, 7:01 pm

pulsarmoley

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I take it its the 30th of this month? I might actually make it as brands is local...ish, would be good to get some more practice with the slr Very Happy

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