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Gtir Motorsport club » Tech room » Help and Advice » FMIC's

FMIC's

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1 FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 7:50 am

DC313

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Looking at getting a Front mounted intercooler for my GTIR,

Are the Forge ones really 3-4 times better than say an autobahn one with the current price difference between the two?

Any one have any recommendations as to which kit to go for and potential pressure drops accross them? I guess the 'cheaper' kits have cast ends, larger pressure drops and generally heavier?

Many Thanks

2 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 11:41 am

shroom

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What's the main reason for the front mount? might be worth looking at getting the standard top mount re cored to a larger core.

I have had a Autobharn and now a Forge on mine. The Forge is a nice bit of kit but the pipework is a little extreme and is not the most flowing. Usually the Autobharn requires cutting as well so you are hacking your car up.

I guess its difficult to say there is a perfect front mount but some people use evo coolers and create their own pipework to suite, adapting the Forge one is also an option but new they are ridiculously expensive. I picked one up for just over 200 squid so thought it was worth it for the price over the cheaper eBay one although that did the job perfectly fine.

I also have a car with the top mount still fitted and have kept it that way as its so much simpler to diagnose issues such as boost leaks etc and keeps lag down a tad

3 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 12:55 pm

DC313

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Currently I have an ARC top mount IC, but looking to go front mounted to make working on the engine easier, reduced inlet temps / the possiblilty of any heat soak and have it for running a larger turbo with increased boost whilst trying to minimise pipe runs to reduce lag.

4 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 1:45 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
Not many real good kits about, Forge is well over-rated, core ok but piping is a disgrace & at the new retail price a complete rip-off. top mount is underestimated really, for good effort on front mount you probably best doing a one off to your requirement with attention on piping & keeping pipe bends as minimal as possible. I find it not much bother working on them with top mount, I made a pipe up so can idle car without top mount which can be handy when doing some work/fault-finding .

5 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 2:50 pm

gtir_woody

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moderator
moderator
@Mr B wrote: I made a pipe up so can idle car without top mount which can be handy when doing some work/fault-finding .

Thats a pretty good idea Smile

6 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 4:28 pm

ROB_IOW

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the two star club
the two star club
Keep the Arc intercooler .. Fantastic bit of kit

7 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 5:09 pm

johnny gtir

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moderator
moderator
Times change arc were all the rage once but people like Fred had the right idea recore a standard top mount as the arc is old. I used to rant about pipe runs and better coolers and seen so much to prove it don't make a noticible difference

8 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 5:27 pm

shroom

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Its as old as the arc hahahahahahahahahahahahaha im so funny

9 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 5:28 pm

shroom

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Johnny doesnt notice the difference as he has so many R's he forgets which one he drives

10 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 5:34 pm

PartyPete

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the one star club
the one star club
Would take Him a week to sort through his 'intercooler parts section at home'

11 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 5:43 pm

shroom

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@PartyPete wrote:Would take Him a week to sort through his 'intercooler parts section at home'

Did you re do your forge pipework yourself or get someone to do it? Looked a lot better

12 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 6:42 pm

pulsarmoley

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moderator
Im currently running an ARC top mount but due to showing its age will be getting it recored to something better/modern


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13 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 7:02 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
Good cores & pipe runs make a difference, trouble is not many tuners got the equipment or spare time to test it all in depth & accurately & most into easy cash tuning rather than engineering facts. Standard top mount has very good flow, only real issue is some heat soak & poor air feed, recored with quality core & some effort on heat shielding & air flow gives a pretty functional top mount for those who prefer keep it. On the R I prefer good effort on top mount mixed with water injection or swapping to a charge cooler as layout of car lends itself well to both. front mounts are fine if done well & needed for usage & power .
Front mounts was a bit of a trend but now more people like a more standard layout so they need realize top mount can handle good hp figures in western climate with bit of work. front mounts are cheap & easy but many are bit shoddy in layout or component quality .



Last edited by Mr B on 2nd December 2015, 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

14 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 7:04 pm

burrows1980

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I'm going back to running my tmic, does it cost much to get them cored? Not really sure if it even needs a new core tbh

15 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 8:08 pm

nomad

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Admin
Admin
Anywhere between £280- £400 .... according to previous posts ....


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16 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 8:35 pm

GTI-R US

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Management
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@Mr B wrote:Good cores & pipe runs make a difference, trouble is not many tuners got the equipment or spare time to test it all in depth & accurately & most into easy cash tuning rather than engineering facts. Standard top mount has very good flow, only real issue is some heat soak & poor air feed, recored with quality core & some effort on heat shielding & air flow gives a pretty functional top mount for those who prefer keep it. On the R I prefer good effort on top mount mixed with water injection or swapping to a charge cooler as layout of car lends itself well to both. front mounts are fine if done well & needed for usage & power .
Front mounts was a bit of a trend but now more people like a more standard layout so they need realize top mount can handle good hp figures in western climate with bit of work. front mounts are cheap & easy but many are bit shoddy in layout or component quality .


^^^
as the man above said
if a tmic is fitted with a little bit of thought then you can run 350bhp with them (I know as just done a trackday with one fitted) and temps at plenum were very cool even after a good thrashing on track.

Infact I think many fmic kits are worse for heat absorbtion due to the thin core aluminium piping which soaks heat from manifold like a sponge, plus you have the added lag which goes with it.

As mr B said its easy to run a car without any intercooler fitted if you just want to check for misfires etc. All you need to do is unplug the maf from the intake pipe and clamp it direct onto plenum then she will idle as normal.

If you are gonna get a fmic kit then don't buy a core bigger than you need for the given turbo you are running. Make your own pipe runs to keep it as short as possible with no sharp bends and you will then have a far better setup than all the ebay generic stuff available.
Also you really do not need 2 1/2'' pipework if the runs are good as the turbo outlet on most is only 2'' anyway. All this will help massively with spool time.
Really does come down to horses for courses with anything like this!


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17 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 10:25 pm

PartyPete

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the one star club
the one star club
@shroom wrote:
@PartyPete wrote:Would take Him a week to sort through his 'intercooler parts section at home'

Did you re do your forge pipework yourself or get someone to do it? Looked a lot better

Yes I did it, shortened the run and made it all from alli as there was a lot silicone bends etc, the standard forge run is a bit pants imo

18 Re: FMIC's on 2nd December 2015, 10:47 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
^ forge pipe run was a fooking disgrace for about £300 it costs if buy cooler with pipe fittings.
It what you expect from a young lad with a ruler & ebay for load of silicone bends & some odd lengths of alloy pipe. You can easily make better for £100 or less.
For a motorsport company & £300 you should be getting way better, total half arsed quick job & £800 of your cash Evil or Very Mad

19 Re: FMIC's on 3rd December 2015, 10:16 am

DC313

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Thanks for all the info, Has anyone had any experience of the Radtec system?

Seems abit cheaper than forge, good pipe runs and you get a new radiator to...

20 Re: FMIC's on 3rd December 2015, 10:22 am

johnny gtir

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moderator
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Cheaper than forge now never used to be

21 Re: FMIC's on 3rd December 2015, 12:15 pm

burrows1980

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Radtec was the route I was going but over grand..

22 Re: FMIC's on 3rd December 2015, 12:31 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
the radtec one is a pretty decent effort, good cooler size, better idea with piping & for those with old rad bonus of a new one. latest versions have revised brackets. Only thing that could be better is mandrel bends over angled butt joints & cooler outlet could of had one less joint & inlet could of been done in one piece mandrel bends right up to turbo for 2 or 3 common garret turbo's with short joiner on ends to allow for expansion/movement rather than cheap route they took. better effort & value than most though & bumper stays original. looks almost factory if done in black powder coat & hoses black & pipes improved a little.
20%vat really makes price rocket, you guys really need sort that out Sad

23 Re: FMIC's on 3rd December 2015, 1:02 pm

nomad

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Admin
Admin
I downloaded the pdf on the radtec website but doesnt come with picture of it fitted so how does the pipe work run ??? £840 +vat hump


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24 Re: FMIC's on 3rd December 2015, 2:26 pm

DC313

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Yea I guess they are still a fair bit of dollar!
I have found this interesting bit online about core sizings, so might be tempted to make my own....

Basic calcs are 3-litres volume / 100 bhp and 50cm^2 / 100bhp cross section

So if the standard / arc tmic is good for 350bhp if we run the calcs for 400bhp

= 12 litres capacity required and 200cm^2 X-section.

using a standard PWR core depth of 68mm it would need to be 600mm wide and 300mm high.


Happy days! Just going to get a quote on a core out of interest....
least then I can have the pipe work the diameter I want and in the best position for shortest runs.


25 Re: FMIC's on 3rd December 2015, 3:19 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
@nomad wrote:I downloaded the pdf on the radtec website but doesnt come with picture of it fitted so how does the pipe work run ???   £840 +vat  hump



could easily be done better .

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