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Gtir Motorsport club » General Discusion » Gtir related Discussion » Another gearbox.....

Another gearbox.....

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51 Re: Another gearbox..... on 1st January 2016, 9:19 pm

PartyPete

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the one star club
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Oh.....I can see you've done this before!!!

52 Re: Another gearbox..... on 1st January 2016, 9:50 pm

nomad

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Lol i do it where ever i go mate if you dont ask you dont get .... its not being to cheeky and whats the worst thing that can happen they say no .... thing is the way i see it is its a competetive market nowadays with the miracles of the internet also means your not just shopping at your local you have the world in your hand when it comes to sellers so never be afraid to say what can you do off that price .... even if its only a couple of quid off to big money a saving is a saving and goes to the next thing you have to buy ...


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53 Re: Another gearbox..... on 1st January 2016, 10:15 pm

Gostek

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You can also tell them that you've got garage or some similar trade. I know you won't get bits for gearbox from euro car parts but they give discount to taxi companies so t's worth a try


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54 Re: Another gearbox..... on 1st January 2016, 11:28 pm

mc_hawkings24


The ppg 3rd/4th selector fork was 180quid when i looked 5months ago if thats what your after aswell? price isn't on there now.

55 Re: Another gearbox..... on 1st January 2016, 11:29 pm

nomad

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I never pay full price in euro's also there internet prices and shop prices are different internet price always being the cheapest so either click and collect from the store or double check before you pay ....they are legally obliged to stand by there internet price but you must say in the shop if you go in there otherwise they will charge normal price ... so either click and collect or if not go in the shop and ask the price and tell them its cheaper on the net .... this is straight from the chap who works in eurocarparts ....


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56 Re: Another gearbox..... on 1st January 2016, 11:36 pm

Gostek

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@nomad wrote:I never pay full price in euro's also there internet prices and shop prices are different  internet price always being the cheapest so either click and collect from the store or double check before you pay ....they are legally obliged to stand by there internet price but you must say in the shop if you go in there otherwise they will charge normal price ... so either click and collect  or if not go in the shop and ask the price and tell them its cheaper on the net .... this is straight from the chap who works in eurocarparts ....
It's bit different story for me cos just go in there tell them where I work and ask them for trade price just cash account (or text my mate who's working there and he rings me back with price). All depend on location too I guess as Peterborough euro is quite helpful and from what I know Kettering for example is useless... Oh and I was quite surprised that they can get exedy or act clutches didn't ask for price thoug...

https://bbmgarage.co.uk/

57 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 12:23 am

PartyPete

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@mc_hawkings24 wrote:The ppg 3rd/4th selector fork was 180quid when i looked 5months ago if thats what your after aswell? price isn't on there now.

That's great thanks, do they not do both the forks?

Well when I have the money together I will give them a call armed with my new advice and will see what I can do, fingers crossed!!

58 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 1:54 am

shroom

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I have read that taller drivers tend to have more problems with drive train issues due to their drving style and posture whilst driving.

Maybe we could cut you off at the knees and you wouldnt have any issues?

59 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 12:02 pm

PartyPete

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Here we go with the tall jokes..... Razz

60 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 7:26 pm

mc_hawkings24


Tall drivers lol the sunnys seats alot lower than a mk2 golf recaro's but still feel the sunny's could be a tad lower. Anyway no idea on the other forks just saw the 3rd/4th selector fork price. I want the selector when i rebuild the box aswell.

61 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 8:00 pm

Daniel232006


talking of gear boxes...what is the route cause of the death of our GTI-r boxes? is it an over all power/torque limit....is it torque spikes? does it tend to be the final gear that goes under full load?
I was with TDI today with the tech wizard and we were trying to get a better understanding...the torque I could produce is insane...but I don't want to blow the box just yet lol...! tho if it happens then ill seriously upgrade.
With this in mind we are going to really test the standard box and see what happens but everyone is talking failure at 400-450bhp...tho that does help in understanding what load the box was under at that point.
If we peg my torque at 400lbs...every simulation suggests we can produce and run that torque figure across the rev range in every gear...then its a case of how hard do we want to rev it...again every simulation says 8-9K without any issue. The guys crunching the math are adamant, and they have done it before on race applications... :O)
Syvecs is a bit like build your own torque curve to fit your situation...so we could build in at 300lbs and curve up to 450 or 500 if its not max torque that's the issue...the engine is now not the limit just the rest of the car!!!
I get the principle of what they are doing...but if we had a better understand of the boxes and the issues that would make it easier...if not it will be a bit of suck it and see ;o)

62 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 8:04 pm

GTI-R US

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@PartyPete wrote:Does any body know what the price is for the Ppg billet forks delivered to the UK are as it doesn't seem to list the prices for the pulsar stuff on the web?! Are there any other options for billet forks other than ppg? Think I'm going to be forking out for a full quaife set, been doing my research, people moan, about quaife, people rate them, people moan about ppg, people rate them, people moan about par, people rate them, at least quaife is in the UK, parts can be had easily, and it's not going to cost me the earth. But if I'm doing it I guess I'm going to need the billet selectors as from experience the power all ways seems to find the next weakest point which in this case I guess will be the selectors! I'll also be treating it to a gear box brace. My bank account is going to be feeling sad


Quaife I would no longer use as they are now out of stock of some parts and last time I spoke to them (not long ago) they were having issues getting the 3rd gears so the quaife gearsets are obviously not made in house.
Ive broke 3 3rd gears by quaife in the past so would think carefully before using another.

We recently had built a Par straight cut full synchromesh gearbox for a customer
you basically get 1-4 gears and reverse idler gear (reuse existing main shaft and 5th gear)
the input shaft is par and comes with 1-4 gears once again using matching stock 5th.
Fitted new bearings and seals also and gears are extremely well made.

Driven the car since install and currently racking some miles up on new engine we built for car before we map her.
Gearbox is very noisy as it whines except 5th gear of course but the gear selection is precise and firm so easy to drive as a daily use car.

The only thing that gearbox builder advised us not to fit was a ppg 3rd 4th selector
Reason being it is around 10-15mm too short.......the arms that is that go round the selector ring.
He said he would fit it if I insisted but said that there could be an issue with loading on selector ring not being evenly distributed due to length which would put excess wear on hub synchro and cause mis-alignment of gears after a period of time and I can see exactly what he means by that as ive now seen 3 3rd 4th hub synchro's with excess wear on one side which can cause them to stick...........2 of those had billet 3rd 4th selectors fitted
so draw your own conclusions with that one!

I have a billet 3rd 4th fitted in my ppg straight cut dogbox but don't recall the selector being that short scratch
But as a whole with what ive seen from par it looks to be a much stronger set up than quaifes semi helical gearset and far less chance of case cracking too with straight cut gears as they wont try to separate anywhere near the amount of a helical cut gearset.


Heres a stock and ppg billet selector  fitted on a rod so you can see the comparison between them which is significantly short



Heres a par gearset prior to fitting


Heres the billet 3rd 4th selector in my dogbox which appears to be longer than the one my client ordered from ppg : /



Last edited by GTI-R US on 2nd January 2016, 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total


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63 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 8:10 pm

mc_hawkings24


Are the standard selectors cast alloy or steel? could they be shot peened if steel?
Think i read of someone shot peening a fork but then i could've imagined it

64 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 8:34 pm

GTI-R US

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1st 2nd is already steel as stock, reverse idler is steel

the main issue is 3rd 4th which is cast alloy and waste of time doing anything with that other than replacing with billet steel.

The trouble is not always the selector though as other issues cause that selector to break
i.e as below just some things
Worn teeth which can cause gear to kick back
Sticky hub synchro
Bad bearings/wrasses causing mis-alignment and vibration issues
Short shifters as can easily mis-shift and damage gear or selector
Poor gearbox building initially where gearset has been incorrectly shimmed causing tight gear selection through too much pre-load especially when hot

So its not really the selectors fault in many cases, its other in-correct items which cause selector to break.
So if the box is built by someone (no names mentioned) who doesn't fully understand what they are doing and its not been built correctly then you will have issues for sure at some stage.


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GTI-R-US.co.uk
 In association with
Torque Of The South Motorsport

Nissan Performance & Tuning Centre
Services provided

Forge Engine rebuilds to specification
Body Restoration, Fabrication, Repair
Paint refinishing facilities
Ecu re-mapping-Performance upgrades
Auto Diagnostics, Injector cleaning  
Race & Suspension setup
General Servicing, Mots, tyre fitting
Full workshop facilities
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65 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 9:04 pm

Mr B

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Why don't you use the par 3<>4 selector .
I have that on my straightcut syncro kit & don't recall them being excessively short, price has gone up a lot though as couple years back par was less than half the cost of ppg shifter.
par kit is pretty good in my opinion, good manufacture & design for the price, gears & shaft splines are tougher than quaife & it gives box casing less stress too plus it little cheaper (quite bit cheaper in asia), you can choose custom ratios at no extra cost & spares are readily available .

66 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 9:31 pm

GTI-R US

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@Mr B wrote:Why don't you use the par 3<>4 selector .
I have that on my straightcut syncro kit & don't recall them being excessively short, price has gone up a lot though as couple years back par was less than half the cost of ppg shifter.
par kit is pretty good in my opinion, good manufacture & design for the price, gears & shaft splines are tougher than quaife & it gives box casing less stress too plus it little cheaper (quite bit cheaper in asia), you can choose custom ratios at no extra cost & spares are readily available .

our customer supplied the selector and was sent directly to us and told it was ppg
the one in my ppg dogbox, deffo looks as though arms extend further around selector ring so perhaps that has a par selector and not the ppg one which we decided against fitting.
In which case he would have been better sourcing that from par as opposed to ppg

Too late now anyway as its all back together with standard one fitted


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GTI-R-US.co.uk
 In association with
Torque Of The South Motorsport

Nissan Performance & Tuning Centre
Services provided

Forge Engine rebuilds to specification
Body Restoration, Fabrication, Repair
Paint refinishing facilities
Ecu re-mapping-Performance upgrades
Auto Diagnostics, Injector cleaning  
Race & Suspension setup
General Servicing, Mots, tyre fitting
Full workshop facilities
http://www.gti-r-us.co.uk www.force500.com

67 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 9:58 pm

johnny gtir

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Everyday is a learning day love it

68 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 10:05 pm

Mr B

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your pic is ppg as that ppg p/n stamped in the fork although in different location than ones I seen in past, normally have a ppg stamp too . possibly design of fork been changed during it's production time !
For a standard box I would look at doing steel machined/fabricated forks as reasonably easy do & way cheaper than current billet fork pricing .

69 Re: Another gearbox..... on 2nd January 2016, 10:40 pm

PartyPete

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I've priced the par 1st to 4th and it's saying its 2k UK money, not sure how much the import tax would be as never imported anything, it's certainly looking more appealing than quiafe now. And you guys really are not saying anything decent about the quiafe at all, plus par is properly straight cut, and as said less stress on the casing, is 5th really worth having, as its only really used for cruising on the motor way, when do you ever use 5th on a track day or a back road blast? You don't do you? And it's an extra 1000 ozzy dollars

70 Re: Another gearbox..... on 3rd January 2016, 12:01 am

gtir_woody

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@Mr B wrote:your pic is ppg as that ppg p/n stamped in the fork although in different location than ones I seen in past, normally have a ppg stamp too . possibly design of fork been changed during it's production time !
For a standard box I would look at doing steel machined/fabricated forks as reasonably easy do & way cheaper than current billet fork pricing .

For some reason it rings a bells about the design change scratch

71 Re: Another gearbox..... on 3rd January 2016, 12:29 am

PartyPete

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I've been scouring the websites, par has a distributor in Poland (as Mr b said) I have emailed them, they have a price for a 1st to 4th dog engagement set and it's £2273 (converted at the current exchange rate zloty to pounds) but no price for a synchromesh set, I will see what they say about both prices posted to the UK, but even for a dog engagement set that's bloody cheap compared to quiafe! And the synchromesh set will be cheaper, I'll be interested to see how much.
I like the idea of a dog box, never driven one, but done a lot of reading, watching videos etc, I'm sort of tempted by it but at the same time thinking it may be a daft idea....people's thoughts?

72 Re: Another gearbox..... on 3rd January 2016, 12:36 am

Gostek

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@PartyPete wrote:I've been scouring the websites, par has a distributor in Poland (as Mr b said) I have emailed them, they have a price for a 1st to 4th dog engagement set and it's £2273 (converted at the current exchange rate zloty to pounds) but no price for a synchromesh set, I will see what they say about both prices posted to the UK, but even for a dog engagement set that's bloody cheap compared to quiafe! And the synchromesh set will be cheaper, I'll be interested to see how much.
I like the idea of a dog box, never driven one, but done a lot of reading, watching videos etc, I'm sort of tempted by it but at the same time thinking it may be a daft idea....people's thoughts?
If you're trying to ship something from my old country here let me know I'll see if any of my mates can do it somehow cheaper...

https://bbmgarage.co.uk/

73 Re: Another gearbox..... on 3rd January 2016, 12:39 am

PartyPete

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Very good of you mike! Not sure how though? If I need an interpreter am I ok to give you a shout? (Split up with my polish missus couple of days ago, Sod's law Razz)

74 Re: Another gearbox..... on 3rd January 2016, 12:42 am

Gostek

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Yes bud send me link or whatever you need translating or even pop around if you want


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75 Re: Another gearbox..... on 3rd January 2016, 12:52 am

PartyPete

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That's really good of you! Cheers Mike thumbsup

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