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Gtir Motorsport club » Tech room » Help and Advice » Help!

Help!

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26 Re: Help! on 15th May 2016, 12:36 pm

shroom

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Well im sure your glad I have had no internet so I couldnt mock you!

The builder is the problem end of, havent you used the same person like 5 or 6 times. Its not like your playing with a few hundred quid here. You could have just brought an Audi rs6 or something for all that wasted funds. Not as rare or interesting but polenesian midgets are rare but I wouldnt want to ride one or own one anyway lol. Rare doesnt always mean good.

Im just going to go out in mine and launch it a few times and laugh at how reliable it is!!!!

27 Re: Help! on 15th May 2016, 3:32 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
If syncro hub issue on 1st<>2nd probably/possibly linked to clearances and hub/fork alignment causing it to almost be engaging another gear when you heavily loaded it in 3rd .
I see a lot of Asia region big power cars on par boxes and they seem hold up well.
They not best kits in world but are a good buy for R's around 400<>500hp with straighcut being good for r case.
UK seems have more issues with par than any other country (not just with R's) and I think this down to minimal use/experience thus more mistakes and fact not so much par tech support .
Worth getting in contact with par to clarify some things if got any doubts as they quite helpful .
Check everything and take what ever effort needed with builder and par to be sure all set right as it big chunk money and time to loose . good luck and hope this last box wrenching you do for some time .

28 Re: Help! on 15th May 2016, 5:21 pm

Cosmic73

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once somethings failed you dont know what damage has been done to other parts which may have been weakened. Sad
6 or 7 failures in a row is bastard bad luck and i would cut my losses and get a new one.
Still, fingers crossed its a quick fix and thats it sorts out for a long while. Smile

29 Re: Help! on 15th May 2016, 6:11 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
^his current gearkit is brand new, that the dilema . hopefully not much damage/stress ...
Hopefully conclusive when out and all inspected ...

30 Re: Help! on 15th May 2016, 7:26 pm

Cosmic73

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I didnt realise it as new kit, Unlikely to be an internal failure like you say,
My money's on clutch slave seal worn or 1st/2nd detent spring,

31 Re: Help! on 15th May 2016, 9:08 pm

PartyPete

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the one star club
the one star club
My guess is it's internal on the box, especially now I've lost first and second, that's nothing to do with the clutch

32 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 3:28 am

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
^ that's what I would think/suggested so far.
Heavy grinding noise was possibly 1st<>2nd syncro loaded too much when booting it in 3rd.
Possibly hub assembly/clearances issue.
Clutch & hydraulics should be out of question based on your comments so far, worth checking all a1 while out though.
Should be easy see damage/fault, cause of it maybe harder figure out so speak with PAR if have doubts .

33 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 8:00 am

Cosmic73

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how can caning it it in 3rd affect the 1st/2nd synchro?
If the 1st/2nd synchro isn't engaged it shouldn't transfer torque (load).

34 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 9:35 am

PartyPete

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the one star club
the one star club
Every time I've done a gear I've then not been able to select 1st or 2nd, but I've not done a gear this time....so god knows what's gone wrong

35 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 9:42 am

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
If syncro hub offset either due to assembly or selector pulling it off center can leave it close to light engagement, mix that with shaft floats & it possible under certain loads for that syncro could be loading lightly while in another gear .
Plenty other things it could be but lack of constant noise limits things .
As it happened with clutch not pressed/in-use it not going be hydraulics .
Best assume nothing and inspect everything though so scanning over clutch inc master & slave would be good. with these cars age I would fit new slave, flex line & master when fitting performance clutch for reliability .

36 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 10:29 am

Cosmic73

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i understand that but if it's new internals, 1st/2nd synchro shouldn't self engage while Pete's caning it in 3rd.
This only leads to the conclusion that the 1st/2nd synchro springs are too weak/not fitted properly/missing and the synchro teeth sheared when they self engaged, hence the crunching now with 1st?

if this is the case, then the assembler needs to be shot!

I know when i rebuilt my synchro's, some of the springs lacked stiffness so i opened them up a bit just get a good solid clonk.

Pete, have you drained the oil for signs of shrapnel?
Smile

37 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 10:51 am

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
It shouldn't but poor assembly checks on gear kit they never dealt with can lead to problems, excessive cone wear then selection issues is more norm symptoms for it .
Just limited on ideas as the heavy grinding noise had then fully disappeared.
Checking oil was a must & should of been done before using it further as any deposits going through gear teeth could result in mainly scrap parts.
Hoping it selector hub related & no major damage .
clutch issue would be good but if all other gears inc reverse selecting cleanly it unlikely unfortunately.

38 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 12:44 pm

PartyPete

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the one star club
the one star club
I'm going to take it all out this coming bank holiday weekend and obviously drain it, see what comes out, I've spoken to him and I'll be taking it back, I'll also ask him about what you guys have said,just put the idea out there

39 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 3:32 pm

shroom

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I feel sorry for you. Do you think you will ever be able to drive it in anger incase something else goes boom lol always listening for noises. You will end with a 500bhp car and never taking it over 35mph withough pooping yourself

40 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 4:41 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
^ lol
I think/hope pete made of sterner stuff than that ...
for sure it got mentally effect your driving & car faith but a proper built straightcut par box should take his power & use quite easily, I launch mine a lot & bang through gears without a care as feels spot on with precise change and tough sounding gear whine to match the big tooth profiles.
Seen couple issues on PAR kits on other cars, both likely assembly faults, subaru was syncro offset but they are more prone to that & PAR do add build notes on it but builder overlooked or was happy enough !
once open should get idea of issue :-S Just be sure everything triple checked & any doubts you or builder have get resolved before box rebuilt as would shame not get it right after devotion & money you put into it .
I could do my evo box quick too as had that out 3 times for hydraulic release bearing issue which ended in getting machine shop make one to my spec & again for broken 2nd gear teeth, happy holidays and may you get some luck this time round ...

41 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 7:41 pm

PartyPete

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the one star club
the one star club
I'll see what he says this time round, I'm taking my spare gear box with me with synchro's etc, I know what shroom is saying, but when it's fixed and back in I will give it some death, I've spent all this money so I can have a strong box I can give some decent shit too, not pussy foot around with it!

42 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 8:15 pm

johnny gtir

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moderator
moderator
I know what I would do and not taking the piss

43 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 9:12 pm

PartyPete

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the one star club
the one star club
and what's that then

44 Re: Help! on 16th May 2016, 9:34 pm

johnny gtir

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moderator
moderator
Take it to a different builder and let them say what was wrong what they thought caused it and try them see if it lasts or they pick up on a fault this one dose not. Your either unlucky or it's getting built wrong. I suspect the lata and your spending good money should not get these faults mate

45 Re: Help! on 17th May 2016, 3:35 am

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
I don't see it all bad luck, also par kit slagging in uk many years back was mainly down to one builder doing it wrong 3 times or so .

46 Re: Help! on 17th May 2016, 6:36 am

PartyPete

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the one star club
the one star club
I am tempted but it'll cost me a shit load more money which I'm not going to put into it atm, like I said it'll be the last time he works on it if it fails again, then I'll be looking else where, it's all good people saying check this check that x y and z but this is what I'm paying this person to do, how do I know if it's been done like that? I don't...and if I take it some where else how do I know they will? Unless any one can recommend the top builder around my sort of area I just keep having to hope it'll be fixed the next time around, but shit like but that's how it is, wish I could do it my self but I can't!

47 Re: Help! on 17th May 2016, 8:00 am

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
Ask him how he setting shaft preloads & to what values . also check first gear clearance to bearing race face as that runs tight due to gears being made wider .
Got be careful as could throw away a big part of a £2.5k gear-kit . If can't do it yourself at least be sure see box when opened & ask a lot of questions & perhaps speak wiith a PAR box builder via PAR first so get good info to help you conclude what the state of play was .

48 Re: Help! on 17th May 2016, 8:09 am

Cosmic73

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hey, Pete,
I'm a Chartered Engineer and my job is designing and testing transmissions/gearboxes, at various OEM and transmission companies over the last 20years.
I'm not saying I'm on expert on the GTIR box, but the one i stripped and rebuilt is running well and has more 500miles on it now.
If you want, why don't you remove the box and we'll take a look inside it together this weekend? We can identify the fault(s), asses the risk of re-using the internals and identify root cause.

If required, i'll also write you an official tear down report that you can use as leverage in any 'negotiations' with your builder.
Smile

49 Re: Help! on 17th May 2016, 8:58 am

shroom

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Now thats a fantastic offer good on you Mr Cosmic. Pete needs some good luck!

50 Re: Help! on 17th May 2016, 9:22 am

johnny gtir

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moderator
moderator
Cosmic Dose that offer stand for a certain Geordie if I travel ?

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