Gtir Motorsport club

Welcome to the largest Nissan Pulsar & Sunny GTI-R Forum. Masses of info, friendly members, cars for sale, lots of spares. Best forum on the net by far. Everything your gtir needs is here.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Gtir Motorsport club » Tech room » Gearbox section » Pete (the box slayer) rebuild

Pete (the box slayer) rebuild

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Go down  Message [Page 2 of 7]

26Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 9th July 2016, 1:47 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician

Sounds sensible idea to have q&a during build up then cut/paste/edit anything worthwhile into a pinned topic ...
Due to amount of important bits that will be new or almost new and lack of major large debris through gears they should be fine, 3rd would of had some stress as reverse was catching but no external signs on gears to worry about.
Using spare casing and best used parts you got along with par, new bearings etc should see box that'll have no issue with low 400hp unless unlucky .
Don't think anyone will hold you responsible and can't do worse so crack on and get this man out the sh1t and on the track killing evos rather than itself lol .

27Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 9th July 2016, 2:30 pm

PartyPete

PartyPete
the one star club
the one star club
If it lasts 10 miles then that's how it is, it's not your fault it's just shit luck! I can see how attentive you've been with it so far and I know you're doing your best so that's more thank good enough for me. Just glad I've got you to help me out on this! Fingers crossed though it does last!

28Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 9th July 2016, 3:11 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
I think it will be fine, you guys understandably stressed from grief of last builder. Be sure do a break in for around 400 miles (with mid point oil inspection) before going silly as can pick up any signs of a fault before it fatal plus it allows gears lap in and everything settle in a bit .

29Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 9th July 2016, 3:39 pm

PartyPete

PartyPete
the one star club
the one star club
[quote="Mr B"]I think it will be fine, you guys understandably stressed from grief of last builder. Be sure do a break in for around 400 miles (with mid point oil inspection) before going silly as can pick up any signs of a fault before it fatal plus it allows gears lap in and everything settle in a bit .[/quote

Would different grade of oil be used for the bed in?

30Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 9th July 2016, 4:25 pm

johnny gtir

johnny gtir
moderator
moderator
Sounds good once done re post edited version . All I say it for is not just this thread but many if your showing someone or searching on your phone places I live lack good 4g and I trawl pages to find the answer.
Pete is like yourself a good lad and although he would be gutted I know he personally would never blame you your as your effort so far is above and beyond keep up the good work

31Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 9th July 2016, 5:00 pm

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
Cheers mate, Very Happy

32Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 10th July 2016, 12:30 am

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
@PartyPete wrote:
@Mr B wrote:I think it will be fine, you guys understandably stressed from grief of last builder. Be sure do a break in for around 400 miles (with mid point oil inspection) before going silly as can pick up any signs of a fault before it fatal plus it allows gears lap in and everything settle in a bit .[/quote

Would different grade of oil be used for the bed in?


I would use a gl4 or 5 75/90 semi synthetic at most and cheapish brand such as maybe coma for you in UK.
First drain is just check nothing nasty happening, second drain at end of break-in a double check and flushes out any debris.
Used crossed gears and shot peened par gears need time wear in. New syncs same and they can take a few thousand miles before best shifting . Casual slow driving first don't rush it fast shift for while ...

33Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 10th July 2016, 7:56 am

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
@Mr B wrote:
@PartyPete wrote:
@Mr B wrote:I think it will be fine, you guys understandably stressed from grief of last builder. Be sure do a break in for around 400 miles (with mid point oil inspection) before going silly as can pick up any signs of a fault before it fatal plus it allows gears lap in and everything settle in a bit .[/quote

Would different grade of oil be used for the bed in?


I would use a gl4 or 5 75/90 semi synthetic at most and cheapish brand such as maybe coma for you in UK.
First drain is just check nothing nasty happening, second drain at end of break-in a double check and flushes out any debris.
Used crossed gears and shot peened par gears need time wear in. New syncs same and they can take a few thousand miles before best shifting . Casual slow driving first don't rush it fast shift for while ...

'Casual slow driving' 'dont rush it'
Pete's brain will shut down trying to process this anomaly Very Happy Very Happy

34Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 12th July 2016, 8:52 pm

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
Measured the following baulk ring clearances with feeler blades (as new 1.0-1.35mm, wear limit 0.7 mm)

3rd, 1.19mm!
4th, 0.89mm,
5th, 0.79 (can hopefully be replaced with Pete's spare)

1st; needs the  gear from PAR,
2nd; inner and outer cones require a dial indicator which I'll do at work tomorrow,
Reverse;  TBA when I get the spare assembly.
Very Happy

35Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 13th July 2016, 12:02 pm

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
Measured the baulk wear on the 2nd gear (dual cone) synchro,
As new is 0.6-0.8mm, wear limit 0.2mm

Pete's 1st box
Dim A (inner)=0.4mm
Dim B (outer)=0.8

Pete's 2nd box
Dim A (inner)=0.45mm
Dim B (outer)=0.85

So the 2nd gear synchro from both boxes are fine, however Pete's 2nd box has greater clearances so i'll go with that,  Very Happy  Very Happy
Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Img_2062
Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Img_2061

36Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 13th July 2016, 12:30 pm

PartyPete

PartyPete
the one star club
the one star club
Great stuff, looking like good news so far then Smile

37Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 13th July 2016, 2:08 pm

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
yep, things are starting to look up, Very Happy

38Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 15th July 2016, 7:06 pm

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
Even tho the parts looked clean I've soaked them in degreaser overnight and give them all a good scrub.
It's amazing how much extra crap there is hidden in the crevices.
Anyway, all squeaky clean and ready to start assembling tomorrow, Very Happy
Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Img_2063

39Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 15th July 2016, 8:07 pm

PartyPete

PartyPete
the one star club
the one star club
Looking good!! Smile I'll post those bits out to you at the start of next week Neil

40Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 16th July 2016, 10:06 am

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
Started the input shaft rebuild this morning using a small amount of MPZ lube on all friction surfaces.
3rd input gear assembled, endplay was 0.23 - 0.254 around the gear. Spec states 0.23-0.43 so it's well in even with the 0.025 run-out error.
Snap ring groove clearance less than 0.1mm so all fine.
Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Img_2064

Went on to assemble 4th and it's a different story .
Synchro clearance was 0.99mm!! Spec states 0.25-0.55,
Groove clearance (gear float) 0.178!! Spec states 0.00-0.06
So Pete you need a new and thicker thrust washer. I'll measure the one you have at work next week and work out the size you need.
Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Img_2065



Last edited by Cosmic73 on 30th July 2016, 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total

41Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 19th July 2016, 12:30 am

mreguest

mreguest
Howdo!

Firstly wow! Good skills, it's great to see when people can come together and help each other out, hope the final build works well! Smile

I've just started my own build thread - http://www.gtir-motorsport-club.com/t6762-mreguest-s-gearbox-issues#100068

hopefully there's some good pictures in my album that will help everyone and I will be adding more as I go along. I have fully dismantled my box but don't intend on rebuilding it for a while.

Pete if you want any brand new bits for a gearbox that you see in my pictures just ask, I've got loads of bearings, baulk rings, springy things etc... enough to rebuild a few boxes but I have no intension of building my two boxes for a while, so would happily sell some of it as long as I can find replacements. Some parts have taken months to find/arrive but it doesn't matter as long as it's guaranteed stock...

Something which is interesting and worth noting are the 'shifting springs' between 3rd/4th gear. Don't know if you have them on fancy PPG/PAR/Quaife etc, but all three of mine broke when 3rd/4th selector fork broke. Now I couldn't tell you exactly if they are part of the selector fork breaking problem or simply break as a result of the fork breaking... However I can tell you Nissan changed the design many years ago to reduce some slack/movement, and they have been the hardest part ever to find stock... Probably because they fit nearly every
1990-1995 nissan gearbox known to man, and it's not just GTIRs that fail 3rd gear Sad

these:
Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 26846061833_7ce4c2b879_zDSC_2037 by edward guest, on Flickr

Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 26847572593_31109c8d4f_zDSC_2046 by edward guest, on Flickr

in this picture the broken 3rd/4th ones are part number ending E01, brand new ones are E04 with extra 'springy wings' to reduce movement, E00 are my old 5th/rev in perfect condition.

Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 27780868073_62a353ce81_zDSC_0040 by edward guest, on Flickr

Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 28293173682_49cbe1bb51_zDSC_0044 by edward guest, on Flickr

Take a quick read of my thread... I will be watching yours with eyes wide open, and probably asking many (daft) questions... I will start to list my dismantle in chronological order one day soon. Maybe when Pete's gearbox is finished everyone can chip in and hopefully create a full gearbox overhaul thread.

If you need any pictures from mine loading on here just say, good luck with it all!

Cheers,
Adam

42Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 19th July 2016, 7:19 pm

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
Hi Adam and thanks for the info, ive had a look at your post and its a really good read. It looks like you have the right kit and you know what you're doing.
Top tip regarding the 3rd/4th synchro springs, i didnt realise they had been updated.
Its definitley an upgrade Pete should have. How much did they cost?
Thanks for the kind offer of parts, thats a rep point mate  Very Happy
If it still stands Could you measure the thickness of your input shaft thrust washer? Its the two C shaped split parts. Pete's is 4.48mm thick but needs to be 4.66mm.

One of our aims is to create a full overhaul thread once this rebuild is complete so the more help the better. Very Happy

Are those upgrated gears i saw in the photos? They dont look like oem, quaife or PAR.

43Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 19th July 2016, 8:20 pm

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
Pete, as mentioned in the above post I measured the input shaft thrust washer at 4.48mm, which means you need to replace it with one at 4.66mm to reduce the synchro clearance and gear float to spec

Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Img_2066



Last edited by Cosmic73 on 30th July 2016, 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total

44Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 19th July 2016, 9:32 pm

mreguest

mreguest
thrust washer things are both 4.50mm

Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 28135584100_db1bec0718_zDSC_0057 by edward guest, on Flickr

part numbers and measurements:

3227803E01
SELECT T=4.500mm

3227803E02
SELECT T=4.525mm

3227803E03
SELECT T=4.550mm

3227803E04
SELECT T=4.575mm

there's no 4.66mm... what does This mean?

one of the 3 springy things was about $20 delivered from UAE, the other two were £6.15 each from UK, I picked them up locally...

I have 6 more guaranteed from USA (so they say) at about $6 each + tax + post. I will email the USA and find an update. I'll then work out the average price of them delivered and we'll go from there...

Question - if i took my box apart and forgot to feeler gauge measure the thicknesses of various gaps, then replaced all the bearings with identical ones (measured to 0.01mm), then put it all back together should it all just fit and not matter that I didn't measure things?

The only new gear you spotted is quaife third, coincidentally bought off Pete...

Cheers!

45Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 20th July 2016, 8:54 am

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
This means Pete might have a problem with his PAR 4th gear.
The dimension to the synchro face must be 0.6mm undersized at nominal and the gear hub is still 0.05mm undersized against the thickest washer Nissan supply.
I'll remove the PAR gear and have it inspected to benchmark against stock 4th.
If it doesn't closely match OEM then i wont fit it.



Last edited by Cosmic73 on 30th July 2016, 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total

46Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 20th July 2016, 8:58 am

shroom

shroom
@Cosmic73 wrote:This means Pete might have a problem with his PAR 4th gear.
The width to the synchro face is 0.6mm undersized and the gear hub is 0.15 undersized
I'll remove the PAR gear and have it inspected to benchmark against stock 4th.
If it's out then it needs to go back to PAR.

Are the undersize from manufacture do you think?

47Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 20th July 2016, 9:02 am

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
@shroom wrote:
@Cosmic73 wrote:This means Pete might have a problem with his PAR 4th gear.
The width to the synchro face is 0.6mm undersized and the gear hub is 0.15 undersized
I'll remove the PAR gear and have it inspected to benchmark against stock 4th.
If it's out then it needs to go back to PAR.

Are the undersize from manufacture do you think?

I can't see how it could be any other way.
3rd/4th hub is stock, so as far as i'm concerned it's inconceivable that this would be out of spec by such a large amount.
That only leaves the PAR gear and/or input shaft. but there's only one way to prove it.
Very Happy

48Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 24th July 2016, 10:08 am

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
Hey Pete,
I measured the following on those 5th/reverse spare parts you sent;
5th baulk clearance 1.015mm, this is much better then the 0.787mm you had, Very Happy
Reverse baulk clearance >1.2mm Very Happy
C washer 4.48mm no difference,  Neutral

So, the input shaft assy only needs the PAR 4th gear v stock comparing, study

49Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 24th July 2016, 10:13 am

PartyPete

PartyPete
the one star club
the one star club
@Cosmic73 wrote:Hey Pete,
I measured the following on those 5th/reverse spare parts you sent;
5th baulk clearance 1.015mm, this is much better then the 0.787mm you had, Very Happy
Reverse baulk clearance >1.2mm Very Happy
C washer 4.48mm no difference,  Neutral

So, the input shaft assy only needs the PAR 4th gear v stock comparing, study

Ok cheers, so what is the worst outcome likely to be once you've measured these parts?

50Pete (the box slayer) rebuild - Page 2 Empty Re: Pete (the box slayer) rebuild on 24th July 2016, 10:33 am

Cosmic73

Cosmic73
@PartyPete wrote:
@Cosmic73 wrote:Hey Pete,
I measured the following on those 5th/reverse spare parts you sent;
5th baulk clearance 1.015mm, this is much better then the 0.787mm you had, Very Happy
Reverse baulk clearance >1.2mm Very Happy
C washer 4.48mm no difference,  Neutral

So, the input shaft assy only needs the PAR 4th gear v stock comparing, study

Ok cheers, so what is the worst outcome likely to be once you've measured these parts?

Either the PAR input shaft width is too wide or PAR 4th gear too thin.
Worst case, the error is too big and we send the input shaft, 4th or both back to PAR,
Middle case, we live with it and shim it up,
Best case, the PAR parts would fit correctly.

Sponsored content


Back to top  Message [Page 2 of 7]

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum