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Gtir Motorsport club » Tech room » Help and Advice » Car had enough...(solved)

Car had enough...(solved)

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1 Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 6:06 pm

Gostek

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So it looks like my turn for some headache... Lets start from beginning.

For some time I've had bit of an issue, car would misfire/hesitate when booted from cold. Well "don't do it idiot" so I wasn't. It wouldn't play up If warmed up just for 5 min or driven for around mile bit like anti-rag. Unfortunately last week fault began to be worst, it would still misfire after 5 miles (soonest I'd hit any boost it sounded like anti-lag/launch control) and last Sunday bloody thing just stopped.
It wouldn't start eventually if it started would cut out if I'd press gas pedal. Sometimes when trying to start it would back fire in to intake and sort of run backwards for few sec.
So I've tried swapping for known working:
Fuel pump and relay
Injector ballast/resistor
Ignition amplifier
Fuel pressure regulator
New ht leads dizzy cap rotor arm and plugs
Known working distributor (I've thought that hall sensor gave up)
Different maf
New ignition coil
Pressurized intake - no leaks
Can't check fuel pressure but took off hose from filter and turn ignition on and pump is priming and when turning over there is constant pressure
Well there is spark to but I've replaced plugs and car wouldn't start straight away I've pulled no1 plug and it was flooded.
When turning over and won't start car stinks of petrol and since is flooding like that I'm thinking that whatever is controlling injectors is keeping them open for too long. Oh and it's running around 12 afr on idle
I haven't  checked compression yet but occasionally car starts but soonest there is even 0.1 bar of boost it just start misfiring again
There was code no 12 but I've disconnected maf while running cleared dtc and it stayed clear for time being  

By the way car is pretty much standard except gt2871r running 1 bar with gizzmo ebc only mod to the loom is to tach signal which I've added cable to ebc.
My next step is to check wiring to maf and poss coolant temp sensor.
If any of you guys came across something like that and could point me in some direction it would be lovely as I need my beasty to get me to work...

Once I'll figure out how I'll put vid of it running...

Thanks Mike



Last edited by Gostek on 23rd February 2017, 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total


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2 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 6:17 pm

Gostek

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Gotta love that backfire at the end



Last edited by Gostek on 11th February 2017, 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total


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3 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 6:36 pm

nomad

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Videos not working for me ???


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4 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 6:37 pm

Gostek

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Is this better bud? Might not like 2 vids in same post


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5 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 6:38 pm

nomad

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Still not working but could be my shit connection
...


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6 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 6:46 pm

Gostek

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKpvzVD8_wo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYT7EXxB6vg

Here are links


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7 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 9:15 pm

Stu

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For me I would take the boost control out of the equation until it's sorted.
Sounds like afm problem.
Its hard to help diagnose someone's issues that already knows so much.
Are all the balance nipple on the throttle bodies?


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8 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 9:41 pm

nomad

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Was thinking the same thing tbh ... most of things i would of suggested you have changed ...have you still got the carbon cannister ...???


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9 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 9:46 pm

Gostek

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Evap is long gone... My next step is to check coolant temp sensor and maf wiring I need to get gold of some sort of diag to check what the sensors are telling ai is cts reading -40 degree or maf showing 5v...
All the nipples are present too Stu... No vacc or boost leaks but it acts like there is giant boost leak.


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10 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 10:03 pm

Stu

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@Gostek wrote:Evap is long gone... My next step is to check coolant temp sensor and maf wiring I need to get gold of some sort of diag to check what the sensors are telling ai is cts reading -40 degree or maf showing 5v...
All the nipples are present too Stu... No vacc or boost leaks but it acts like there is giant boost leak.
You havent done the same as was on mine?
The black vacuum box at the back of the plenum.
Is it all conected up or are some hoses left off by mistake when the water delete to the plenum was done?


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11 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 11th February 2017, 10:28 pm

Gostek

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@Stu wrote:
@Gostek wrote:Evap is long gone... My next step is to check coolant temp sensor and maf wiring I need to get gold of some sort of diag to check what the sensors are telling ai is cts reading -40 degree or maf showing 5v...
All the nipples are present too Stu... No vacc or boost leaks but it acts like there is giant boost leak.
You havent done the same as was on mine?
The black vacuum box at the back of the plenum.
Is it all conected up or are some hoses left off by mistake when the water delete to the plenum was done?

I've pressurized bloody thing about 10 times... Was your hunting on tick over though?? Since this problem I didn't try to warm her up as tad afraid of bore was but she ain't hunting or anything...


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12 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 12:25 am

mike74

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Engine earth's all present and correct? Have you connected an ht lead and spark plug to dizzy to check for healthy spark?

13 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 12:32 am

Gostek

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@mike74 wrote:Engine earth's all present and correct? Have you connected an ht lead and spark plug to dizzy to check for healthy spark?

Yes and yes. I've replaced whole dizzy cos I've thought cas wheel gone loose or something....


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14 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 8:01 am

Mr B

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I would step back and do basic compression test as simple and quick and draws good conclusion on engine health.
Once that done move on and check sensors in more detail, swapping parts tells you little really ,
you can swap a fuel pump but DMM readings of voltage and earth at pump finish the chapter .
Same with other areas such as dizzy, how the wiring and actual signal value to ecu ?
Would be surprised if ecu temp sensor give you as bad running as you got but it pretty easy do some tests and even feed a fake cold temp signal to ecu using a resistor, here a thread with lot detail and pdf links on ecu temp sensor >
http://www.gtir-motorsport-club.com/t6965-need-expert-advise-for-start-up-issues

Does the spark look strong consistent & timely on all 4 outputs ?  
Have you done basic FSM DMM tests at wiring plugs for maf sensor and ignition etc ?

OBD1 consult cable and the free Scan Tech Nissan software should be owned by all owners on oem ecu as it was less than $20USD on ebay
Very useful for reviewing live data the ecu seeing from sensors and speeds up diagnostic work drastically .
http://www.gtir-motorsport-club.com/t4215-obd
OBD1 consult cable harder find these days so when see one buy it, chap on here done the bluetooth ones so that good option also .

Other areas you want check is FPR, rail pressure and injector function.
Can do a relative injector test easily with fuel pressure gauge and a clip on injector pulse controller then compare pressure drop between 4 injectors from base line pressure , can spot symptoms of leaking and flow issues quite easily without need pull them out for bench test .
Grounds always worth investigating, fast check is jumper cable on bat- to engine and various sensors

Hopefully more testing and the results from it will give you some direction.
consult cable would be massive plus and simple resistors/variable resistor to fake sensor signal voltages to ecu is cheap way draw final conclusions .
fuel pressure gauge useful and not overly expensive and same with injector pulse controller tool. Pay for themselves quickly and can conclude a lot in short amount of time from those cheap tools doing various tests ...
should be easy get some direction once get some values and either conclude good so move on or find suspect values and dig deeper in that area. Good luck ...

15 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 11:24 am

Gostek

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Thanks B I haven't got consult cable cos this is my first problem like that in 10 years time... I haven't done any wiring test yet either cos I'm working till 5.00 and its quite dark here after 5.00 lol. My next step is to check wiring to maf. Spark does look quite strong. I'll start digging bit more today and see if I can get hold of some diagnostics


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16 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 11:59 am

Mr B

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Funnily enough it dark here around 5:30pm to 6:30pm all year round but it warmer and not so wet so easier get more done .
Bit of advice for anyone really is best time get and learn a diagnostic software tool is when car running fine, You learn the tool and get see good data so when get problems that knowledge makes spotting issues and drawing conclusions from data far more easy and accurate .
Don't overlook obvious basic visuals, I always start with visual on hoses wiring turbo exhaust etc and do a quick relative or gauge compression test to get idea all good enough run, condition of old plugs can give clues and individual cylinder bank to pay extra attention to.
3 super useful tools is the consult cable which was about £16 and on eBay for years but as of last month it not listed at moment, software is linked on this site . fuel pressure gauge kit useful too and can be used for oil pressure also and good enough home kit can be had for 15 to 20 GBP, injector pulse controller is about low £20 .  
Combine that with DMM and the service manual and info can get from likes of this forum most stuff can be checked quite well .
Seems had maf code is indeed good area start checking harness etc .
Hopefully with some more investigation and data will narrow search down or conclude it fully .
After 5pm you can sulk with some vodka and the Nissan FSM to read lol ...

17 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 5:02 pm

johnny gtir

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Anyone think pully has spun ?
Maf related would be my next area
Might sound stupid how do you know it was good maf ? Ecu spiked ?

18 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 5:24 pm

Stu

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Whats the wires like by the ecu for the afm. Has it had a piggyback afr?
Safc for example.
I remember mine stalling randomly and the only recent change was I had wired in an hks afr. I un plugged it and put the afr wire back together and the car was fine again.


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19 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 5:29 pm

Gostek

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@johnny gtir wrote:Anyone think pully has spun ?
Maf related would be my next area
Might sound stupid how do you know it was good maf ? Ecu spiked ?

Well I never said it's a good one lol!
I've checked voltage at the plug and I've got 12v earth and around 1.5v on cold idle coming out of maf. Which pulley you're on about Johnny?
I need to visit my mate he has got one of those bluetooth readers (someone here was making them) apparently that got data menu.
Another thing which puzzles me is that car is starting up ok without inter cooler.


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20 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 5:32 pm

Gostek

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@Stu wrote:Whats the wires like by the ecu for the afm. Has it had a piggyback afr?
Safc for example.
I remember mine stalling randomly and the only recent change was I had wired in an hks afr. I un plugged it and put the afr wire back together and the car was fine again.

I've got extra earth wire for maf wiring there looks ok and I haven't got any piggy backs or anything like that Stu... It's a pretty standard car mate.


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21 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 5:55 pm

Mr B

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What the output signal voltage with just ignition on (should be under 1v)
Warm idle maf signal is between 1v to 1.5v
Want check that voltage signal right at ecu plug via back probing plug (pin 16)
Pin 17 is maf earth .

While there I would check your temp sensor next and see voltage signal at the ecu (pin 18)
cold start temp voltage should be something like  3.2-3.4v (10-15degC) 3v=20degC and 1v=80degC
Sounds likely your fueling well off, what state of your lambda sensor, ever replaced/tested ...

Use ecu pinout diagram for number locations and double check those pins number right in the manual or ecu pinouts.pdf in useful links sticky as I old and senile at times .



Last edited by Mr B on 12th February 2017, 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

22 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 6:00 pm

Gostek

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Lambda is sort of unknown it's an original product came with the car... I've checked voltage at the plug with ignition on it was 12v earth and 0v I've got ecu in a footwell now I'll get some probes form work and start back probing it.


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23 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 6:51 pm

johnny gtir

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@Gostek wrote:
@johnny gtir wrote:Anyone think pully has spun ?
Maf related would be my next area
Might sound stupid how do you know it was good maf ? Ecu spiked ?

Well I never said it's a good one lol!
I've checked voltage at the plug and I've got 12v earth and around 1.5v on cold idle coming out of maf. Which pulley you're on about Johnny?
I need to visit my mate he has got one of those bluetooth readers (someone here was making them) apparently that got data menu.
Another thing which puzzles me is that car is starting up ok without inter cooler.
no mate just thought you said maf changed. Just seen where people have changed the maf and it was for a one that had not been off a running car ( at the time) and was also faulty or damp. Just trying to help you not over look something simple and  cause yourself hours of work as it's so easy done. Check all four plugs and report each ones  condition. Don't know why I wrote pully ment arm but you have replaced that so not that.

24 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 7:08 pm

Gostek

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@johnny gtir wrote:
@Gostek wrote:
@johnny gtir wrote:Anyone think pully has spun ?
Maf related would be my next area
Might sound stupid how do you know it was good maf ? Ecu spiked ?

Well I never said it's a good one lol!
I've checked voltage at the plug and I've got 12v earth and around 1.5v on cold idle coming out of maf. Which pulley you're on about Johnny?
I need to visit my mate he has got one of those bluetooth readers (someone here was making them) apparently that got data menu.
Another thing which puzzles me is that car is starting up ok without inter cooler.
no mate just thought you said maf changed. Just seen where people have changed the maf and it was for a one that had not been off a running car ( at the time) and was also faulty or damp. Just trying to help you not over look something simple and  cause yourself hours of work as it's so easy done. Check all four plugs and report each ones  condition. Don't know why I wrote pully ment arm but you have replaced that so not that.

I've stripped this maf checked and cleaned... Anyway thanks for input guys all help is appreciated


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25 Re: Car had enough...(solved) on 12th February 2017, 7:12 pm

johnny gtir

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Any luck mate ? I am abit lost off is it starting and doing video or not starting at the min

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