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Gtir Motorsport club » Tech room » Help and Advice » So near..... yet so far now :-(

So near..... yet so far now :-(

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1 So near..... yet so far now :-( on 11th January 2018, 1:43 pm

burrows1980

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Afternoon,

Apologies firstly for not being on here for most of last year, life commitments etc took over... I was hoping to give a final update to my restoration thread but last night saw me shed a tear Sad

In brief the car apart from a couple of things is actual finished has been for a while, got the bug over Christmas period to get it on the road for March cheers Something has been playing on my mind for a while, the coolant has been dropping, about 10mm off max a couple of times, I put it down to air locks freeing up. Bearing in mind the car hasn’t seen the road since being rebuilt, so only ever idled on drive. Chatting with a friend recently I noticed the oil on the dipstick is slightly cloudy, oil filler cap clean as a whistle, I assumed possibly assembly lube (green) Ester oil (red) and millers running in oil (clearish yellow) maybe created this added with condensation in the block of not reaching driving operating temp.

Last night I removed top mount to have a fiddle with the injector loom, thought while it’s off check the colour of the plugs. Err I wish I had taken some photos now, but basically no 1 and 4 were dripping wet I mean liquid dripping off them!! Last time it was started was possible October last year.. plugs are thick black, no 2 & 3 not wet wet but not dry again black. Once wiped the plugs are like brand new no corrosion at all.

Once I finished crying and moaning then a bit more crying I started to think back to when I first took the car off the road in 2012. It was over fueling massively, engine oil had petrol smell, also really strong under the rocker. I put 15L in 2016 only started it maybe 5 times, a few of them times I left it running for a while until fans kicked in, but it’s gone through all of that already Shocked so I’m wondering if it’s an over fueling problem or a head gasket problem? I know there not the best on fuel but 15L only idling probably combined for 2hrs, too fuel dragsters use less Laughing Laughing

The head gasket I’ve had since 2005 genuine Nissan gasket, kept flat and clean, but possible dried out??? Can they do that? Or as I didn’t get the head or block decked there warped?

So weekend I plan on doing a comp test, also a thread I found on here Bob advised someone who potentially had a head gasket issue, of putting 40psi compressed air into the cylinder at tdc and seeing if air bubbles appear under rad cap.

I’m also going to remove the HKS fuel controller from the equation just in case that’s the issue. It’s a really old one, can’t remember the model.

I don’t think it’s a boost leak as every hose is brand new, and new clamps, but will still check.

Had a quick look at the afm but couldn’t remember what voltages I needed to look for Rolling Eyes

Any thoughts chaps?

Happy new year by the way!!

Gaz

2 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 11th January 2018, 2:24 pm

mike74

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Have you pulled any fault codes from it yet?
The cloudy oil could just be because its not had a proper run and heated up for as long to burn moisture off. The wet plugs are a bit worrying though. Were they wet straight after it had been running?

You're kinda pissing against the wind until you get some more info though. It could well be a vacuum leak somewhere that's making it run rich, blocked or kinked fuel return hose, FUBER fuel pressure regulator, dodgy MAF/wiring, dodgy temperature sensor/wiring, knock sensor fault...the list goes on...could also be the fuel controller gone bad too as you say.

If there's no fault codes present (and if it were my own car) I would replace the plugs and return the ECU/fuelling side of things back to bone stock, just to rule stuff out. If its no better only then would I be starting to look for other faults on the car.

You need to start from a known baseline before you can progress further I think  Very Happy

3 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 11th January 2018, 4:48 pm

burrows1980

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Thanks for the reply Mike, no fault codes yet, the battery has been disconnected for months so guessing they would be lost now? Going to start the car up over weekend and idle it for a bit see what it shows up. I never checked the plugs after the last time I started it, so they’ve potentially been wet since October.. tbh I should of checked them after the initial startup when I got it all back together, with it running so smooth I never thought much of it.

4 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 11th January 2018, 9:53 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
Hello mr burrows, thought your R unloved know you get new baby ...
cylinder leak down test is what you referring to.
Make your own tester or buy one as they pretty cheap these days.
I thinking you idling on driveway maybe part of reason for plug state as needed a proper break in run really but as fueling could be issue you best checking it out.
Can you smell fuel, do you think some oil in cylinders as new rings not bedded in .
I would be checking out fuel pressure followed by injectors either by relative flow test on the car by comparing pressure drop from each injector at a fixed time cycle from an injector pulse controller tester or off-board flow check, Seems all plugs pretty much same would expect it not injectors.
ecu water temp and maf need a look at too for fueling .
Does it actually start and idle pretty good, is it smoky ?
10mm water loss not much evidence towards head at this stage and run in conditions.
Least it got you back on the forum :-)

5 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 11th January 2018, 10:35 pm

burrows1980

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Starting to get a little bit of time to myself again Laughing

You know I like making things, see what I can bodge together or just buy something like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-VSE2020-Cylinder-Leakage-2-Gauge/dp/B000R9VNXM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1515710003&sr=8-2&keywords=leak+down+tester

I had the injectors refurbished when I rebuilt engine, the report I got back showed them to be in good condtion before getting serviced.  

I expected the plugs to stink of fuel, especially the wet wet ones, but didnt strangely.  Theres a faint smell, but not like sticking your head in the tank smell Laughing

I always pull the fuel pump fuse and crank it over to bring oil pressure up if not started for a while, the its starts everytime sweet as a nut and idles once warm around 900rpm, only smoke out the exhaust is condesation, ive not revved it hard until rings etc bedded in.  I actually insured it last saturday hoping to get it mot'd next month (adian flux multicar policy so had to start it same day as other car).

Silly question but how do I go bout checking the fuel pressure? Can I do that on OBD scan tech?  Checked for codes before on it and only code 55 which I thought it would as the batteries always disconnected but connected to a trickle charger.  TPS at closed throttle showed 0.44v fully open 4.26, MAF LH 0.49v

6 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 11th January 2018, 11:04 pm

mike74

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All you need to check fuel pressure is a gauge and tee peice plumbed in between the fuel filter and rail. You can get these off ebay for peanuts. Ive got one permanently installed so i can check it periodically coz im paranoid Smile
The lambda sensor could have something to do with it too if its mis reading

7 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 11th January 2018, 11:18 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
55 is no codes present .

look forward to your next homemade tool thread :-D knocking up something pressure cylinder easy enough but leakdown gauge on better units is nice .
fuel pressure kit not too expensive and can buy basic kit/gauge and add own fittings .

8 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 12th January 2018, 7:39 am

gtir_woody

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moderator
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Gotta get back to posting mate! hope you can get this sorted, always enjoyed your updates Smile

9 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 12th January 2018, 8:50 am

mike74

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10 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 12th January 2018, 10:12 pm

burrows1980

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Cheers for that Mike, got one ordered.  Took the piggy back harness out today for the HKS fuel controller and Apexi Boost controller, and installed the standard solenoid back in.  The fuel controller installed was this one:











Once I sort the vacuum hoses out tomorrow I should be able to start her up and see if any codes pop up.  I read on the Canadian forum today about a restrictor in a vacuum line for the standard solenoid? is this correct, from what I gather its the hard pipe thats under the standard top mount? If so I havent got that pipe anymore Laughing

Out of interest can I mock up a pipe to bypass the intercooler while im trying to find the fault without causing more problems? Not as if it will be driving on the road with it. Saves the hassle of taking the top mount off every 5 minutes and possible damaging the fins etc.



Was so much easier with a FMIC but decided to go back top mount might live to regret that Mad

11 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 12th January 2018, 10:32 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
that correct about restrictor pipe, went from inlet to pipe under cooler then to solenoid .
can make a restictor if have to and insert it into vacuum hose .

I been doing the cooler off bypass pipe for years, makes sorting lot of engine running jobs/diagnostics in the shop possible way easier/quicker .

12 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 12th January 2018, 10:37 pm

burrows1980

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What size restrictor is it? 2mm

13 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 12th January 2018, 10:48 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
around 1.7mm from what I read, i not measured it myself .
Is couple posts on here that discussed restrictor ...

14 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 12th January 2018, 11:09 pm

burrows1980

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I might find it in the garage tomorrow, ive only took it off recently so cant of gone far, the two fixing screws are in the frame still.. will have a search now, thanks Mr B

15 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 12th January 2018, 11:21 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician

16 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 13th January 2018, 4:04 pm

nomad

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Admin
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You can also use a welding tip if you can't find the restrictor Wink


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17 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 13th January 2018, 10:07 pm

burrows1980

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Cheers chaps, found it in garage loft this morning, realised when I saw it why I removed it:



Laughing  I cut the restrictor out and popped it in current hose





Once Ive got it running ok i'll put the apexi back on so weird having it totally standard, lost 100hp Shocked

Anyway with the fuel & boost controller vacuum valves bypassed time to start her up and see whats what.  Had the laptop plugged in to check for codes but nothing, apart from MAF sensor after I unplugged it.

Heres a vid of the initial startup:



Its not running right, idle not stable sounds like its slightly hunting? I squeezed the pipe coming off the PCV and the revs dropped to 800ish



unplugged the MAF and revs rose to 1500

Checked the plugs once it had ran for about 10 minutes and were dry, no sooting, still dark from previous runs as I cant rub it off



Checked under the filler cap to find milky crud



Assuming this is the condesation and not coolant.  The coolant rose in the expansion tank obviously and once cool settled back down to a pencil mark I put on it beofre starting, so thats a little encouraging!

When blipping the throttle it does sound lumpy might just need a good run now to bed rings in, Im not going to start it again until mot day hopefully March when the roads are less salty.  So the plan of attack is to get the last few bits ironed out and hopefully enjoy her one more time!

Made a pipe to bypass intercooler, save the on off on off top mount malarky Laughing



Pretty eh!, must remember not to close the bonnet (hood for our america friends!)

Im thinking of dumping the Miller running in oil and putting in Titan Race Ester oil, used it while building the engine up with assembly lube on bearings etc, or do you think if it is a mixture of fuel and consation in the oil itll be alright for 100 mile of so?

18 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 14th January 2018, 3:14 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
I would check you lambda sensor or just replace if really old and think of it as a 2 decade service item :-) ecu logic on fault codes for lambda and likes of det sensor is very basic and more a wiring integrity and basic signal check than much else so can be faulty but never trigger CEL .
try making engine rich/lean by adding squirt of propane or similar/creating a vacuum leak and see effect on lambda.
Have you done a compression test yet .
I would stick to mineral oil until done some road miles to bed it in .

19 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 14th January 2018, 6:32 pm

burrows1980

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The coolant level has dropped by about 4mm off the pencil mark, and for the entire time of idling condensation and liquid was coming from the exhaust...

Another possible idle problem, I completely stripped the throttle bodies down, may need balancing.  Did them years ago and still got the tool



I’ve got another type as well



Used the dial one last time.  Either way it’s going for MOT in March, even if I do have to call a recovery truck Laughing

20 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 14th January 2018, 7:07 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
Possible HG is an issue, mine always finds it's own happy level which always under the max mark .
Really wants a gas sniff test and leak down test done and see what brings up .
If look in cylinders after cooled down can you see 1 or 2 cylinders with any water droplets or different plug and piston crown colour .
You also want check fuelling in depth and clarify lambda function as could be over fuelling from lambda signalling lean .
MOT emission test results will be interesting .
Did you not have lot of wear in your throttle body bores around throttle plates ! remember something about you coating it ?

21 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 14th January 2018, 7:22 pm

burrows1980

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Yeah you could see straight through when butterflies closed Laughing I coated the edges with molykote 321 same as factory applied stuff. I haven’t done a compression test yet, will stick a bore scope down later if I get chance and see what’s down there.

22 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 14th January 2018, 8:06 pm

mike74

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The coolant level dropping isnt that uncommon after changing the fluid. Every time ive ever had to drain the coolant i have to keep an eye on the level and top up even after a few days running. Hopefuly its just that Smile

23 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 14th January 2018, 8:23 pm

burrows1980

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Hopefully it is Mike, trapped air (like the day after a good curry Laughing), Normally change coolant and take it out for a run but I havent so will shall see how far she gets Laughing

Looking onto the crown its thick wet black, assuming the overfueling problem, bore cam makes it look a lot lighter





I lightly disturbed it with a flat blade, looked like old engine oil if im honest

24 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 14th January 2018, 10:02 pm

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
trouble is without a good run on road or dyno hard conclude much at moment,
Best scenario is rings not bedded, it over fuelling and welsh weather reason for cream cheese on your cap .
Idling is poor but hard pick up sounds on video, your short clip with engine warm seemed have lambda bottomed right out which needs looking into .
Other area put on list for checking for idle and fuelling is carbon canister but that added back during rebuild so wouldn't of been related to over fuelling pre rebuild .

25 Re: So near..... yet so far now :-( on 14th January 2018, 10:16 pm

burrows1980

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@Mr B wrote:trouble is without a good run on road or dyno hard conclude much at moment,
Best scenario is rings not bedded, it over fuelling and welsh weather reason for cream cheese on your cap .
Idling is poor but hard pick up sounds on video, your short clip with engine warm seemed have lambda bottomed right out which needs looking into .
Other area put on list for checking for idle and fuelling is carbon canister but that added back during rebuild so wouldn't of been related to over fuelling pre rebuild .

Ive just been explaining how a carbon canister works to the wife Laughing and how mine might be collasped causing the issues.. Other thing ive noticed tonight is the PCV isnt stuck but if you blow through the none threaded part, it doesnt seal shut completely all the time, cleaned it best I could but 50:50 if it seals completely. Going to order a new Lambda this week. Another thing I did on rebuild the second sensor that went into the cat, it has never been fitted since owning the car, just tied up under the car. Ive screwed it into the de-cat pipe, will this make a difference?

And yes the welsh weather is pretty pants at the moment!

Things to do before MOT:

New PCV
New Lambda
By-pass Carbon canister
Install fuel pressure guage
Stop crying over it

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