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Gtir Motorsport club » General Discusion » Gtir related Discussion » GTR Maf

GTR Maf

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1 GTR Maf on 8th February 2018, 1:42 pm

DC313

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Hi All,

I'm looking to make this so I can run a GTR MAF with my nistune ECU.

It's a 2.5" Ally pipe (either 16 or 14swg) 125mm long with swaged ends and the machined MAF sensor mounting boss welded to it.



All I was wondering was if anyone else might be interested in having one if im going to the effort of making it all?

Cheers
Dave

2 Re: GTR Maf on 8th February 2018, 8:11 pm

johnny gtir

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moderator
moderator
What’s the nistune like to set up to support it pm if you would rather
I would be interested any development I support

3 Re: GTR Maf on 8th February 2018, 9:21 pm

Gostek

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Events Organiser
Events Organiser
It's same stuff to set up like z32 but sensor got better resolution. with 2,5 in tube nistune is saying that it's good for 450hp. you can go more with bigger tube.


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4 Re: GTR Maf on 9th February 2018, 9:19 am

DC313

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Yep what Gostek says!

Have to intall the correct rom pack, enter the chassis code, pick your injector size, maf type and tube diameter and it gives you a base map starting point that will run the car so you can map it from there.

Cheers

5 Re: GTR Maf on 9th February 2018, 9:28 pm

GTI-R US

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Management
Management
Is it not better to use a 3" tube Dave?

Reason i say that is because im using one on one of the cars we have in to map and seeing as my Gtr is fitted with a couple i will take  the scaled readings from those and use them as a baseline
Also as you rightly said they are capable of running much more from a larger diameter tube.

If you dont mind me saying so it may be an idea also to incorporate an angled vane into the piping  which will give more turbulent air and aid with turbo spool time especially if running a larger turbo.


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6 Re: GTR Maf on 12th February 2018, 3:07 pm

mreguest

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Hi Dave - Fantastic idea and if machined as beautiful as your 3D then wow!

You know pulsar people are cheap skates so it would be interesting to know your thoughts on your price. I've being considering this myself and along the way found various existing examples. I've not picked one yet and maybe yours is the answer... Sorry to piss on your bonfire but thought it best to say in case you didn't know these exist...

this looks nice:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R35-MAF-Z32-AFM-Air-Flow-Meter-Housing-Nissan-Skyline-R32-R33-R34-300ZX-GTR/272969919604

this too:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apexi-R35-GTR-Air-Flow-Meter-Adapter-For-R32-R33-GTST-RB20DET-RB25DET/322950560769

shiny:
https://www.rhdjapan.com/hpi-r35-airflow-type-aluminum-adapter-harness-set-z32-maf.html

a DIY weld yourself boss kit for not much money.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-R35-GT-R-Air-Flow-Meter-Flange-Kit-Boss-Nissan-Skyline-R32-R33-R34-GTR-/292222143643

I think this guy is claiming some funny stats, but a reasonable price...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-skyline-r32-r33-r34-gtst-gtr-s13-s14-s15-sr20det-rb25det-R35-maf-sensor/292417352439

cheers,
Adam

7 Re: GTR Maf on 12th February 2018, 6:09 pm

Gostek

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Events Organiser
Events Organiser
Ok I need to correct myself here... It's with 3 inch tube nistune says 440hp... At 1.5 bar from gt3071r maf voltage is around 4.5v. So like Bob said It might be idea to get bigger tube made


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8 Re: GTR Maf on 14th February 2018, 6:11 pm

DC313

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Yea I can go 3" the main reason I was looking at 2.5" was due to the rest of the gtir inlet diameter. But your advice is appreciated!

Thanks for the heads up Adam, I think I can compete with them, I just need to look at a few bits, especially now going up to 3" diameter but then should be able to give an idea of price.

Thanks for the feedback!

9 Re: GTR Maf on 14th February 2018, 9:33 pm

mreguest

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I am probably missing something here but I suspect you don't need to go wider than turbo inlet...

Throwing out a few chunks of info, questions and ideas, not 100% sure all is correct but I love knowing the maths behind things. Please tell me what you know, this is what I 'think' I know...

Density = kg/m^3 (d)
Mass per unit area = kg/m^2 (ma)
Volume of air = m^3/s (vol)
Cross sectional area = m^2 (xsec)
Velocity = m/s (s)

Air flow formula through pipe with normal air pressure,

vol / xsec = s

Diameter of turbo inlet is fixed and Garrett will tell you what their turbos can achieve. So they know what boost etc can be achieved through this hole...

Xsec is fixed so vol is proportional to s. The maf you buy will have a voltage range 0-5V. If I'm not mistaken maf actually measures s and calculates mass based on other known parameters of system, I.e. Ecu knows the size of pipe that maf sensor sits in.

Let's say maf tops out at 10m/s and reads 5V in 2" pipe... putting same sensor in 3" pipe and pulling same air volume would reduce s and thus lower voltage. V proportional to s.

I suspect taking the sensor out of our standard maf and putting it in bigger pipe would be compatible with programmable ecu, if you can somehow tell ecu what you've done, I need to watch someone programme an ecu to understand this...?

What bhp can Z32, 350z, R34, R35 cars achieve with maf in their standard housing? They all have a fixed xsec which I assume ecu must know to get related V?

Is any of my chat sensible? Smile

10 Re: GTR Maf on 14th February 2018, 9:51 pm

Daveymeladdy

avatar
@mreguest wrote:I am probably missing something here but I suspect you don't need to go wider than turbo inlet...

Throwing out a few chunks of info, questions and ideas, not 100% sure all is correct but I love knowing the maths behind things. Please tell me what you know, this is what I 'think' I know...

Density = kg/m^3 (d)
Mass per unit area = kg/m^2 (ma)
Volume of air = m^3/s (vol)
Cross sectional area = m^2 (xsec)
Velocity = m/s (s)

Air flow formula through pipe with normal air pressure,

vol / xsec = s

Diameter of turbo inlet is fixed and Garrett will tell you what their turbos can achieve. So they know what boost etc can be achieved through this hole...

Xsec is fixed so vol is proportional to s. The maf you buy will have a voltage range 0-5V. If I'm not mistaken maf actually measures s and calculates mass based on other known parameters of system, I.e. Ecu knows the size of pipe that maf sensor sits in.

Let's say maf tops out at 10m/s and reads 5V in 2" pipe... putting same sensor in 3" pipe and pulling same air volume would reduce s and thus lower voltage. V proportional to s.

I suspect taking the sensor out of our standard maf and putting it in bigger pipe would be compatible with programmable ecu, if you can somehow tell ecu what you've done, I need to watch someone programme an ecu to understand this...?

What bhp can Z32, 350z, R34, R35 cars achieve with maf in their standard housing? They all have a fixed xsec which I assume ecu must know to get related V?

Is any of my chat sensible? Smile

Nice bit of Wednesday evening algebra!

11 Re: GTR Maf on 19th February 2018, 4:32 pm

ADSgtir


@mreguest wrote:I am probably missing something here but I suspect you don't need to go wider than turbo inlet...

Throwing out a few chunks of info, questions and ideas, not 100% sure all is correct but I love knowing the maths behind things. Please tell me what you know, this is what I 'think' I know...

Density = kg/m^3 (d)
Mass per unit area = kg/m^2 (ma)
Volume of air = m^3/s (vol)
Cross sectional area = m^2 (xsec)
Velocity = m/s (s)

Air flow formula through pipe with normal air pressure,

vol / xsec = s

Diameter of turbo inlet is fixed and Garrett will tell you what their turbos can achieve. So they know what boost etc can be achieved through this hole...

Xsec is fixed so vol is proportional to s. The maf you buy will have a voltage range 0-5V. If I'm not mistaken maf actually measures s and calculates mass based on other known parameters of system, I.e. Ecu knows the size of pipe that maf sensor sits in.

Let's say maf tops out at 10m/s and reads 5V in 2" pipe... putting same sensor in 3" pipe and pulling same air volume would reduce s and thus lower voltage. V proportional to s.

I suspect taking the sensor out of our standard maf and putting it in bigger pipe would be compatible with programmable ecu, if you can somehow tell ecu what you've done, I need to watch someone programme an ecu to understand this...?

What bhp can Z32, 350z, R34, R35 cars achieve with maf in their standard housing? They all have a fixed xsec which I assume ecu must know to get related V?

Is any of my chat sensible? Smile


consider ;
the turbo is sucking in air into its inlet , so it must create a vacuum to do this ,and this vacuum must take energy to do so - which is better a long thin pipe or a short fat pipe ?
the maf is a fairly dumb thing , it just heats a wire and it measures the amount of electricity needed to heat it -air passing over it cools the wire and more electricity is needed to warm it up again -this difference is the mass of air fowing over it -thats it other than it knows the temp of the air as a factor in calcs -not that smart

Shaping the air passing through the pipes to the turbo has a benefit but is hard to achieve as the pipes bend and the speed of the air is not constant , you need fast moving air in order to ¨"shape it" and you only get this at high turbo speeds

12 Re: GTR Maf on 20th February 2018, 3:50 am

Mr B

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gtir technician
gtir technician
Only reason they put it in larger diameter pipe is so hotwire stays in limit of max reading for more air mass, extra resolution on the sensor allows you do that without loosing much measuring value detail .

Basically you trade resolution for mass air flow and keep it within the max 5V output measure via tuning the pipe diameter (adjusting mass over time on the hotwire) .

Standard intake diameters can handle air mass for pretty big hp as can be seen with all the 400+hp cars some still with top mount .

13 Re: GTR Maf on 20th February 2018, 8:59 am

DC313

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Well I've got some prices together and for either a 2.5" or 3" inlet I recon I could put them together for about £100 + p&p for anyone on here that might be interested. Thats with out the angled vane that Bob suggest as I'd need some more feed back about size and angles and position and performace increase etc before going further down that route.

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