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Gtir Motorsport club » Tech room » Help and Advice » Rattling sound at engine start.

Rattling sound at engine start.

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1 Rattling sound at engine start. on Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:29 pm

Osmax90


Hi,
When I start my engine after at least an hour shutted off, it rattles for 3 to 6 seconds.
Sounds like timing chain.
This sound wasn't there before .
Chain tensioner??
Or something else?
Common problem?
Greets Ive



2 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:05 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
could be if sound from that area (chain rattle very easily identifiable), tensioners can be a problem, what oil pressure like at startup ...

3 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:55 pm

Osmax90


I have long oil cooler lines, so oil presure builds slowly up at start up.
But isn't the chain tensioner spring preloaded?

4 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:40 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
tensioner has a toothed locking system but early types like originally on the R are course toothed and known to be noisy either due to wear/malfunction of tensioner, wear of chain pins, wear of guides and low pressure on tensioner .
Having a look at tensioner good place start if conclude noise down to chain and if replacing getting the fine tooth tensioner is best as besides finer teeth so holds positions tighter it also has increased travel range .
First thing you want do is take stethoscope or screwdriver with funnel on end and conclude source/location of the noise .

Will say I not a big fan of oil coolers on R's if usage/temps don't really justify it .

5 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:03 pm

Osmax90


Ok, good advice.
Thank you.

6 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:22 am

astarozna

astarozna
@Mr B wrote:Will say I not a big fan of oil coolers on R's if usage/temps don't really justify it .
If the sandwich plate is with thermostat then it's ok, but the rest is a usual spot on Mr. B!!!

7 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:53 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
Yeh it not end of world with decent thermostat and for hard track use and hot climate can become a must.
Problem is the oil system not the best on the R to start with so adding a cooler system to it if really not needed not that wise and most fast road cars in cooler countries really never need it especially if using quality oil.
Lot of the plumbing and location choices pretty poor too, effort keep short runs and lower mounted is a better design over the rocker cover location ect .
It one of those things of really not needed you got more reliability without it IMO .

8 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:42 pm

Osmax90


I ordered a new tensioner with fine teeth . . .
I will let know iff it fixed the problem.
My oil cooler is installed on a high location,
Maybe it drains empty . . .

9 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:53 pm

Osmax90


Mazworks adaptor, no thermosthat. . .
https://youtu.be/Y73QoU1vDg0

10 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:42 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
That removes the oem water/oil heat exchanger and the oil filter snub .
Ideally have thermostat inline on plumbing as running with oil below optimum temp and too slow warm up would not good long term .

Did you pinpoint noise to timing chain/tensioner location ...

11 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:45 pm

Osmax90


It is coming from that area, difficult to locate, i'm gone replace tensioner, not that expensive . . .
Valve clearances are already checked.

12 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:59 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
Yes it not pricey and the superseded part nice have fitted .
Chain related noises pretty easy pinpoint normally
Tensioner would be the sweet fix so get wrenching and hopefully it be big :-D

13 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:37 pm

Osmax90


Replacing the tensioner didn't solve the problem,
i'm gone do some tests with the oil pressure later . . .

14 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:52 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
get stethoscope out and really try track down root area of the noise, if pretty sure chain related you may want take rocker cover off and investigate chain and guides further .
Oil flow to tensioner and chain spray nozzle could do with checking if do strip chain out as both can become blocked, ones I seen blocked mainly been from rebuilds and poor silicone use or pre build cleaning .

15 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:00 am

astarozna

astarozna
Starter staying on perhaps???

16 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:59 pm

Osmax90


Mr B like you also said, bad oil cooler location, the oil cooler is installed above the motor and it drains empty wen the engine is shutted of for a langer period.
I hanged the oil cooler below the engine temporairly and problem solved.
Woud an anti- return-valve be a solution? (For not draining empty)
Not alot of options on the location.  . .

17 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:39 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
It could be but total redesign on your cooler or getting rid of it likely wiser if not really needed .
I would seriously look at low mounting solution, delayed startup pressure a serious issue and high mounted coolers not a good match to standard oil system full stop .

18 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:51 pm

Osmax90


Ok, i will consider to install the Standard oilcooler again.
At 350Hp will be fine probably.

19 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:26 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
Be surprised where can fit a small cooler if really try, few people on here and other forum/cars probably give you a few ideas, If car runs well and cooling system A1 the standard oil temps stay fairly decent on a road car in cooler regions, isn't that hard squeeze a small cooler low level and with ducting can be at many positions and still work good . Many times top spec synthetic oil and perfect factory setup have oil temps in perfectly acceptable range no mods needed .

20 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:17 pm

Osmax90


https://youtu.be/Y73QoU1vDg0

Offroad buggy, due to sand en small stones, Can 't chose a lot of locations.

21 Re: Rattling sound at engine start. on Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:17 pm

Mr B

Mr B
gtir technician
gtir technician
Bet that buggy fun :-)
I think you probably best try your low restriction 1 way valve idea as pretty easy low cost to test out . If you not using a thermostat that worth looking into as when closed it only flows small amount into cooler circuit to keep it primed and that flow restriction helps engine at start up .
A bit of playing around with these ideas likely resolve it . Worth doing good oil pressure checks cold and hot be sure system good as be shame have bottom end issue from it or be running with a weak pump for too long .

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